Kieran Healy

CNN gets a dose of itself

Here’s an excerpt from an interview by CNN’s Aaron Brown yesterday. He is talking to Hafez Al-Miraz, the chief Washington correspondent for Al Jazeera.

BROWN: Look, I’ll play this as directly as I can. Explain to me the rationale that your network had for displaying what can only be described as the most gruesome of pictures across the Arab world?

…

BROWN: All right, sir…

AL-MIRAZ: …on both sides.

BROWN: …respectfully, I understand that. And I, believe me, would be the first to argue and have many times in my professional life, that we are not in the business of sanitizing war or anything else. But is not—is there not a line between sanitizing the news and simply putting something on TV because it is gruesome. You can show the horror or war without zooming in on the most gruesome—I mean, I don’t—I’m reluctant to even describe…

AL-MIRAZ: Yes.

BROWN: …what that 6.5 minutes looked like, because honestly, sir, it is vile.

AL-MIRAZ: And that’s what happened. Al Jazeera, when we got the chance to edit these tapes, first it was rushed and put out as is or mostly as is. And I agree with you. Some of it is really terrible and horrible. Unfortunately, some European networks, including Sky News, that is also the owners of Sky News are the owners of other U.S. networks, put the pictures as is. And maybe they did not edit out, but Al Jazeera did edit out after that the pictures. And we made sure that it doesn’t show a description of faces or anything like that. That happened on—later on … To explain to you what happen. So 12:00 noon Al Jazeera did abide by that until the people in the Pentagon notified the families. And unfortunately, half an hour after that, 12:30, I was watching CNN and I found one of your reporters in the Pentagon reading names of three POWs. And this is CNN in English for American families, while Al Jazeera would not reach any American or English speaker audience in the U.S. And this is what we’re talking about.

BROWN: Sir, are you saying that this happened on CNN…

AL-MIRAZ: Yes, sir.

BROWN: …excuse me, let me finish the sentence. I wasn’t quite done. On CNN International or CNN domestic.

AL-MIRAZ: CNN domestic, sir.

BROWN: Because as you know, excuse me, as you know, there’s a very different audience and a very different issue there.

AL-MIRAZ: As—we’re talking about CNN domestic, CNN America. We’re talking about 12:30. And the Pentagon did investigate that and talk to the reporter who did that. And to—just to add to that also, look today at “The Washington Post” front page.

BROWN: Okay, that…

AL-MIRAZ: “The Washington Post” front page has an Iraqi POW. I don’t think that this is—two wrongs don’t make a right. I agree with you.

BROWN: Stop.

AL-MIRAZ: As we know in about…

BROWN: We’re getting—no, no, we’re veering all over the place. But let me bring you back to one question. Let’s not go to the POWs yet. We’ll get to the POWs if you want. How many times before noon when you pulled this—when you say you pulled this thing or edited this thing or whatever precisely happened, how many times were the six minutes, and you know this, sir, you know how gruesome that piece of tape is, how many times had that been aired? And for what purpose could it possibly have been to air it in that form?

AL-MIRAZ: Well, I haven’t counted how many times. It might be twice or three times, but also we have to remember we are in testing times. And this is a war. And until you know there is a reaction like that, maybe people didn’t feel it, but once they felt that there is a very negative reaction to some of these footages, they responded to that. And we should remember also, Aaron, that in 1993, when CNN was 13 years old, Al Jazeera is now seven year old, CNN put the footages of the U.S. soldiers bodies dragged in Mogadishu, in Somalia City. And I don’t think also would people judge on CNN for doing that. People hated—those people who did that to the U.S. soldiers, but not CNN because it carried…

BROWN: Okay.

AL-MIRAZ: …the bodies of U.S. soldiers in Somalia in 1993.

Here’s some more context—the whole Al-Miraz segment.

BROWN: Thank you. You can hear the air raid sirens going off again in Baghdad. It’s always hard to know what this all means. As you all know now, five or so, almost five days I’ve lost track, into the war, but there in the nightfall at about 3:00 Baghdad time. It’s now about 6:30 in the morning in Baghdad, there was a series of explosions. There had been explosions before. What these air raid sirens are about, we don’t know. I do know now we have four cameras that in stationary positions. They give us a view of the city, but not an entire view of the city. You’ve heard the air raid sirens go off. And we’ll see what it turns out to be.

Heidi, were you finished. You want to finish up? Okay, we’ll keep going and we’ll get back to Heidi towards the top of the hour.

Hafez Al-Miraz is the Washington bureau—Washington—chief Washington correspondent for Al Jazeera. And he joins us now. Good to see you, good evening.

HAFEZ AL-MIRAZ, AL JAZEERA CHIEF CORRESPONDENT: Good evening.

BROWN: Look, I’ll play this as directly as I can. Explain to me the rationale that your network had for displaying what can only be described as the most gruesome of pictures across the Arab world?

AL-MIRAZ: Thank you for the opportunity. I would like just to explain, first of all, that Al Jazeera, as you know, an independent news media. We’re not taking sides in that conflict or in any other conflict. We are reporting the news. And we are putting out footage that we feel it is newsworthy sometimes for our own audience. This is an Arabic language news network. We don’t broadcast in English or at least not yet.

The Al Jazeera for the last three days have been putting out footages of bodies of Iraqi dead Iraqis. They were both armies or civilians. And today, the—we found that there are footages, or we have a chance to put out footages, although it was shot by the Iraqi TV or part of it by Iraqi TV, of the other side of the war. Also the—that the human suffering on the American level, on the American side.

Some of the footages for your case or my case may be—would be controversial. Do you need to put that much of the footage or the close-up? And it is a debate, even in our newsroom for a while. People who feel that it is the reality of war. And you cannot have just war as video games and just the very sensitized image of the war. But the main point…

BROWN: Mr. Al-Miraz.

AL-MIRAZ: …is the footage of people who are dead and bodies were put to Al Jazeera for the last two days of Iraqis. Today it was put on for American victims. It is very—it’s a tragedy. It is very painful and emotional issue.

BROWN: All right, sir…

AL-MIRAZ: …on both sides.

BROWN: …respectfully, I understand that. And I, believe me, would be the first to argue and have many times in my professional life, that we are not in the business of sanitizing war or anything else. But is not—is there not a line between sanitizing the news and simply putting something on TV because it is gruesome. You can show the horror or war without zooming in on the most gruesome—I mean, I don’t—I’m reluctant to even describe…

AL-MIRAZ: Yes.

BROWN: …what that 6.5 minutes looked like, because honestly, sir, it is vile.

AL-MIRAZ: And that’s what happened. Al Jazeera, when we got the chance to edit these tapes, first it was rushed and put out as is or mostly as is. And I agree with you. Some of it is really terrible and horrible. Unfortunately, some European networks, including Sky News, that is also the owners of Sky News are the owners of other U.S. networks, put the pictures as is. And maybe they did not edit out, but Al Jazeera did edit out after that the pictures. And we made sure that it doesn’t show a description of faces or anything like that. That happened on—later on.

Also, we honor the request by the Pentagon to give them some time, not to play the footage—not to play the video for the POWs until they identify them and notify the families. That happens around 12:00 noon today. And the—my headquarters did really respond to that request for humanitarian consideration. And we honor this as of 12:00 noon, until like 8:00 p.m. today, Al Jazeera did not put any of these footages or the POWs, while other networks in Europe, including U.S. allies like Spain state TV, Portugal, Belgium, others. They did put it out.

BROWN: And sir, and they have to—sir, they have…

AL-MIRAZ: If I can finish, Aaron, on that.

BROWN: I’m sorry, but they have to answer for themselves.

AL-MIRAZ: That’s true.

BROWN: In this case, sir, you have to answer for Al Jazeera.

AL-MIRAZ: And let me just finish that point, please.

BROWN: Okay.

AL-MIRAZ: To explain to you what happen. So 12:00 noon Al Jazeera did abide by that until the people in the Pentagon notified the families. And unfortunately, half an hour after that, 12:30, I was watching CNN and I found one of your reporters in the Pentagon reading names of three POWs. And this is CNN in English for American families, while Al Jazeera would not reach any American or English speaker audience in the U.S. And this is what we’re talking about.

BROWN: Sir, are you saying that this happened on CNN…

AL-MIRAZ: Yes, sir.

BROWN: …excuse me, let me finish the sentence. I wasn’t quite done. On CNN International or CNN domestic.

AL-MIRAZ: CNN domestic, sir.

BROWN: Because as you know, excuse me, as you know, there’s a very different audience and a very different issue there.

AL-MIRAZ: As—we’re talking about CNN domestic, CNN America. We’re talking about 12:30. And the Pentagon did investigate that and talk to the reporter who did that. And to—just to add to that also, look today at “The Washington Post” front page.

BROWN: Okay, that…

AL-MIRAZ: “The Washington Post” front page has an Iraqi POW. I don’t think that this is—two wrongs don’t make a right. I agree with you.

BROWN: Stop.

AL-MIRAZ: As we know in about…

BROWN: We’re getting—no, no, we’re veering all over the place. But let me bring you back to one question. Let’s not go to the POWs yet. We’ll get to the POWs if you want. How many times before noon when you pulled this—when you say you pulled this thing or edited this thing or whatever precisely happened, how many times were the six minutes, and you know this, sir, you know how gruesome that piece of tape is, how many times had that been aired? And for what purpose could it possibly have been to air it in that form?

AL-MIRAZ: Well, I haven’t counted how many times. It might be twice or three times, but also we have to remember we are in testing times. And this is a war. And until you know there is a reaction like that, maybe people didn’t feel it, but once they felt that there is a very negative reaction to some of these footages, they responded to that. And we should remember also, Aaron, that in 1993, when CNN was 13 years old, Al Jazeera is now seven year old, CNN put the footages of the U.S. soldiers bodies dragged in Mogadishu, in Somalia City. And I don’t think also would people judge on CNN for doing that. People hated—those people who did that to the U.S. soldiers, but not CNN because it carried…

BROWN: Okay.

AL-MIRAZ: …the bodies of U.S. soldiers in Somalia in 1993.

BROWN: Sir, this is—there’s nothing easy about these issues. And there’s nothing easy about these conversations. And the one thing I would say, hopefully for all of us, is we appreciate a lot your willingness to come on and talk about it, because it is…

AL-MIRAZ: May I add something, Aaron?

BROWN: …I’m sure you knew, this was—this is a tough one for both sides of this conversation. Thank you very much.

AL-MIRAZ: May I add something, please?

BROWN: If you can do it in about 20 seconds.

AL-MIRAZ: Okay, just also the issue of POWs, even in your show, you put a still photo of an Iraqi POW, I think, and you had a comment on it two days ago. And I hope you all respect the regulations. Al Jazeera will respect it as of now. And I hope you as networks will put Iraqi POWs should do the same.

BROWN: Well, okay, point made. And just to make the point back, I’m almost 100 percent certain that the family of that POW, wherever they are, did not see that picture on CNN. Thank you.

AL-MIRAZ: Same for us.

BROWN: Sir, thank you very much.

Update: This page was getting huge (and causing bandwidth problems) so I archived the first 250 or so comments to here: http://www.kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/cnn-comments.html

Update 2: Traffic continues to be very heavy on this page. A second batch of about 150 comments are archived here: http://www.kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/cnn-comments-2.html

to the individual who adressed my statement about the american people being sheep, are you saying that the thousands of american soldiers who fought in the gulf war in 1991 are imagining their illnesses? Do not say that I don’t have any proof when these veterans are suffering horrible, HORRIBLE illnesses likely caused by this material as well as the effects on their offspring. I say likely only because there is no scientifically proven evidence that it is harmful. But the veterans point out that the absence of evidence is not the same thing as evidence of absence, and they believe their own experience means there is serious cause for concern. Are you saying that these cases are made up? There are scientists that beleive nasal and respiratory irritations caused by desert sand storms and oil field fires during desert storm may have weakened the nose/brain barrier and allowed depleted uranium to enter the central nervous system of soldiers in the field resulting in slowly developing toxic effects. This depleted uranium is used to make armor piercing projectiles, the same projectiles that were used in desert storm. Are you denying this? That sounds to me like you advocate abandoning war veterans once they have sacrificed and put their lives on the line for the so-called defense of freedom. I believe these illnesses exist and if you don’t believe that there is any proof or any semblance of it i only ask you to check other websites and independant media about this. A movie called The Hidden Wars of Desert Storm is about this very subject and is already available for rent. I also suggest that you contact the veterans administration and ask what percentage of gulf war vets are on permanent disability. if your question is where is my proof that depleted uranium is being used in the present war then you are right, i don’t. however if history repeats itself, as the very existence of this war proves that it does, then i would venture to say that the same weaponry will be used again. to my lack of proof, i ask you this – do you think that if they used weapons made of this material that they would admit it? I think the answer is no.

Also, i know the international as well as the domestic history of this country as well as you do and i do not deny that their are other tyrannical leaders in this world, many of which are supported and were brought into power with the aid of American funds. however I do not support them any more than i support Saddam Hussein, which you alluded to in your post. That is the most common statement coming from people who do not endeavor to ask those like myself why we feel the way we do, who do not know any better, and those who can not seperate a anti-war stance from one of pro-tyranny. They are not one and the same. President Bush stated that, and i quote, “that if you are not with us then you are against us” and it sounds as if you have taken this token to heart. I do not, DO NOT condone any dictatorship or any other regime that is inhumane to its people. It sounds like if I oppose this war then I am on Husseins side and that is the furthest thing from the truth. I, sir, am an African American female and I know exactly what it means to be persecuted, to be hated for my race, right down to the chromosomal level. Hate is fueling this war and will fuel additional wars as long as this type of government is allowed to be in power.

You are right though, we as a nation do not know what war is and i am not saying that I do. I do know however that war means death, war means destruction, war means disease, among many other things. I do not have your experience nor do you have mine. You ask for proof, I suggest you look it up. There is a coverup occuring and DON’T take MY word for it, just like you shouldn’t take your leaders words at face value. being able to question our leaders is the truest test of a democracy.

While this whole disgusting assault on peace is occurring our government has used this distraction to cut even more money from the veteran’s administration budget. What does this mean to you? To me it means that once a soldier has ‘served his country’then his usefulness and our support for him dissappear. I insist and will continue to say that I am very patriotic because I do not want any of those in the service to pay with their lives because of the evil intentions of our country’s leaders. I want them home and if that is NOT supportive of the men and women of the armed forces then I don’t know what is. I categorically deny that I am in anyway pro-Hussein. You stated that things are not just black and white all the time, that there is usually some gray and this is a prime example of that. I am no more a supporter of Saddam Hussein then you are of Fidel Castro.

I do respect your point of view and I am encouraged that my pessimistic view of the American people is not always true. But when you watch the mainstream news and absorb what they are telling you it is easy to believe that things are as awful as you think they are. The unrest and atrocities occuring in south and central america and in other areas of the world should not be. I agree with you. But please, do not label me something that I am not when all I want is peace. What is the matter with that?

All I am asking for is that people question what they are being told, question what our leaders are saying and not just believe what they say because they said it – they are after all politicians. I think, especially in these times, that it could be dangerous to be ignorant about our world and our governments policies and what that means for the rest of us. The high level of emotion that 9/11 evoked is being used as an excuse to bomb this (iraq) country. and there is no documented or otherwise supported link between those attacks and the Hussein regime. those who support this war are not thinking and are going on pure emotion. 9/11 was a horrific act of terrorism and those who perpetrated it, planned and organized it should be punished. however the RIGHT people should be punished, not those who only resemble those who did it. Please note that the hijackers were saudi, not iraqi.

If you believe that american foreign policy is NOT the cause of this ever present hate for america i have to say that you are naive and very mistaken. My ‘inadequacies’, sir, having nothing to do with the fault that the american government bears in the terrorist attacks. Blame the victim? i don’t think so. the true victims in this are those who lost their lives in those attacks, not the american government. The governement used that excuse to bomb afghanistan and are using it again. I believe that this current attack was planned prior to 9/11 and 9/11 only made it easier for the united states to garner international support for its ‘war on terror’. that statement in and of itself is an oxymoron since war is terrorism.

you said, “What few people want to say is that only when the Arab world accepts that the state of israel has a right to exist and to live in peace, will Palestinians get their well deserved state. But as long as Arabs continue to spout hatred and calling for the destruction of Israel this will never happen.” that statement is basically saying that Arab people hate israel because they are totally nice neighbors and are only there to share. Last night i watched a palestinian home being bulldozed because “israel has a right to exist and live in peace”. Everyone deserves peace and no one deserves what is happening to the palestinian people. It seems that YOU are actually blaming the victim by blaming Arabs for hating israel. i don’t blame them and neither would you if it was your house that was being bulldozed.

Again, my point is only that people educate themselves about what is going on instead of taking what Bush and his cronies are saying or what I am saying for that matter. I just say education is power and the more the American people know about what is truly going on the less those in power will be able to get away with it.

regards
Thinking person

to the individual who adressed my statement about the american people being sheep, are you saying that the thousands of american soldiers who fought in the gulf war in 1991 are imagining their illnesses? Do not say that I don’t have any proof when these veterans are suffering horrible, HORRIBLE illnesses likely caused by this material as well as the effects on their offspring. I say likely only because there is no scientifically proven evidence that it is harmful. But the veterans point out that the absence of evidence is not the same thing as evidence of absence, and they believe their own experience means there is serious cause for concern. Are you saying that these cases are made up? There are scientists that beleive nasal and respiratory irritations caused by desert sand storms and oil field fires during desert storm may have weakened the nose/brain barrier and allowed depleted uranium to enter the central nervous system of soldiers in the field resulting in slowly developing toxic effects. This depleted uranium is used to make armor piercing projectiles, the same projectiles that were used in desert storm. Are you denying this? That sounds to me like you advocate abandoning war veterans once they have sacrificed and put their lives on the line for the so-called defense of freedom. I believe these illnesses exist and if you don’t believe that there is any proof or any semblance of it i only ask you to check other websites and independant media about this. A movie called The Hidden Wars of Desert Storm is about this very subject and is already available for rent. I also suggest that you contact the veterans administration and ask what percentage of gulf war vets are on permanent disability. if your question is where is my proof that depleted uranium is being used in the present war then you are right, i don’t. however if history repeats itself, as the very existence of this war proves that it does, then i would venture to say that the same weaponry will be used again. to my lack of proof, i ask you this – do you think that if they used weapons made of this material that they would admit it? I think the answer is no.

Also, i know the international as well as the domestic history of this country as well as you do and i do not deny that their are other tyrannical leaders in this world, many of which are supported and were brought into power with the aid of American funds. however I do not support them any more than i support Saddam Hussein, which you alluded to in your post. That is the most common statement coming from people who do not endeavor to ask those like myself why we feel the way we do, who do not know any better, and those who can not seperate a anti-war stance from one of pro-tyranny. They are not one and the same. President Bush stated that, and i quote, “that if you are not with us then you are against us” and it sounds as if you have taken this token to heart. I do not, DO NOT condone any dictatorship or any other regime that is inhumane to its people. It sounds like if I oppose this war then I am on Husseins side and that is the furthest thing from the truth. I, sir, am an African American female and I know exactly what it means to be persecuted, to be hated for my race, right down to the chromosomal level. Hate is fueling this war and will fuel additional wars as long as this type of government is allowed to be in power.

You are right though, we as a nation do not know what war is and i am not saying that I do. I do know however that war means death, war means destruction, war means disease, among many other things. I do not have your experience nor do you have mine. You ask for proof, I suggest you look it up. There is a coverup occuring and DON’T take MY word for it, just like you shouldn’t take your leaders words at face value. being able to question our leaders is the truest test of a democracy.

While this whole disgusting assault on peace is occurring our government has used this distraction to cut even more money from the veteran’s administration budget. What does this mean to you? To me it means that once a soldier has ‘served his country’then his usefulness and our support for him dissappear. I insist and will continue to say that I am very patriotic because I do not want any of those in the service to pay with their lives because of the evil intentions of our country’s leaders. I want them home and if that is NOT supportive of the men and women of the armed forces then I don’t know what is. I categorically deny that I am in anyway pro-Hussein. You stated that things are not just black and white all the time, that there is usually some gray and this is a prime example of that. I am no more a supporter of Saddam Hussein then you are of Fidel Castro.

I do respect your point of view and I am encouraged that my pessimistic view of the American people is not always true. But when you watch the mainstream news and absorb what they are telling you it is easy to believe that things are as awful as you think they are. The unrest and atrocities occuring in south and central america and in other areas of the world should not be. I agree with you. But please, do not label me something that I am not when all I want is peace. What is the matter with that?

All I am asking for is that people question what they are being told, question what our leaders are saying and not just believe what they say because they said it – they are after all politicians. I think, especially in these times, that it could be dangerous to be ignorant about our world and our governments policies and what that means for the rest of us. The high level of emotion that 9/11 evoked is being used as an excuse to bomb this (iraq) country. and there is no documented or otherwise supported link between those attacks and the Hussein regime. those who support this war are not thinking and are going on pure emotion. 9/11 was a horrific act of terrorism and those who perpetrated it, planned and organized it should be punished. however the RIGHT people should be punished, not those who only resemble those who did it. Please note that the hijackers were saudi, not iraqi.

If you believe that american foreign policy is NOT the cause of this ever present hate for america i have to say that you are naive and very mistaken. My ‘inadequacies’, sir, having nothing to do with the fault that the american government bears in the terrorist attacks. Blame the victim? i don’t think so. the true victims in this are those who lost their lives in those attacks, not the american government. The governement used that excuse to bomb afghanistan and are using it again. I believe that this current attack was planned prior to 9/11 and 9/11 only made it easier for the united states to garner international support for its ‘war on terror’. that statement in and of itself is an oxymoron since war is terrorism.

you said, “What few people want to say is that only when the Arab world accepts that the state of israel has a right to exist and to live in peace, will Palestinians get their well deserved state. But as long as Arabs continue to spout hatred and calling for the destruction of Israel this will never happen.” that statement is basically saying that Arab people hate israel because they are totally nice neighbors and are only there to share. Last night i watched a palestinian home being bulldozed because “israel has a right to exist and live in peace”. Everyone deserves peace and no one deserves what is happening to the palestinian people. It seems that YOU are actually blaming the victim by blaming Arabs for hating israel. i don’t blame them and neither would you if it was your house that was being bulldozed.

Again, my point is only that people educate themselves about what is going on instead of taking what Bush and his cronies are saying or what I am saying for that matter. I just say education is power and the more the American people know about what is truly going on the less those in power will be able to get away with it.

regards
Thinking person

While you, Aaron, do make some good points, a lot of it smacks of … well, 1950’s hsyteria. “The big bad commies are gonna getcha.”

But really, I think it is arguable that the problem with the U.S. dollar started when it stopped producing it’s own federal money and gave the task to a private company which it purchases the currency from. Ah, capitalism…
Do the research, you’ll see what I mean.

Hiya people,

its very interesting to see very different views and opinions being voiced about this war and our world as a whole.

i think it would paint an even better picture if everyone was to give thier name and what country they come from to see where opposition and support for this war is coming from, i guess most people wont but if u feel free enough to voice ur opinions u shud feel the same and be proud of who u are and where u from.

Ok lets see if this has an effect on anyone. I HOPE IT DOES.

MADASER YOUSAF,
UK

(i will get the ball rolling)

Hi
I have no answers, only questions.

Is it naive to expect that a news organization owned by a large corporation will not have a conservative bias?

Do you remember CNN before it got swallowed up by AOLTime Warner? Was it a bit like Al Jazeera?

How many Iraqi civilians have to get killed before Bush will stop talking about liberating the Iraqi people?

Why don’t Ann Coulter and David Frum sign up and go to Iraq if they want to invade it so badly?

Pete

Arron Brown could never be accused of being intelligent. He recently shared one of his profoundly deep thoughts with us. “bullets don’t know technology they just know killing” What the hell dose that mean? Perhaps he is under the assumption that inannimate objects are intelegent or the connection from his brain to lips is defective…Your call Later PS.
excuse the speeeling tanx

Yes, Captain. The Federal Reserve and its gun backed collection agency, the IRS is one of the cruelest jokes played on Americans and the world.

That said, the U.S.A. is still the greatest country in the world and I am still willing to put my life on the line to defend her.

Not trying to promote hysteria. I wish I didn’t believe a communist threat still exists myself, but I do. I have done a life time’s worth of research and I’m afraid its all too real.

Al Jazeera never has and never will be as professional or unbiased as the American news media. Jazeera is a biased, pro-Saddam, pro-Iraq news channel, that shows only one side of the conflict. They failed to show the Shiite uprising in Basra, that was shown by the BBC and MSNBC. the have not reported the mass killings of Shiites and innocent Iraqis by the cowardly Fedayyen. They have vastly exaggerated the civillian casualties, and have painted the false piture of Iraq somehow winning. Only 28 American soldiers have died in this war as opposed to almost 1,000 Iraqi soldiers and guerillas. They have played up the Fedayyen to be some top notch paramillitary army like the Irish Republican Army. In fact the Fedayyen are pussies and cowards who have been getting thier asses kicked for the past week, by the far superrior US Marines and Army. The most unforgivable Al Jazeera coverage, is that of our brave American POW’s. Al Jazeera knows that some of the POW’s were executed, but they still showed the bodies.
Al Jazeera is scum, thier reporters are no talent punks, and thier producers are faggots. I would laugh if someone detonated a IRA style amonium nitrate car bomb at every one of thier American stations. Al Jazeera is filth and they deserve to die like filth.

I honestly do not believe that most of americans
support the war with Iraq.We just are not counted. I certainly know of many who do not support the war, personally,and I wonder why people in my neighborhood or people that I know are never asked our opinions concerning the war?

I honestly do not believe that most of americans
support the war with Iraq.We just are not counted. I certainly know of many who do not support the war, personally,and I wonder why people in my neighborhood or people that I know are never asked our opinions concerning the war?

the iraqi goverment is doomed.
saddam is losing his grip.
right or wrong,we are there,support the troops,
even if yu dont support the mission.
war crimes will b delt with,accordingly.
saddam is a criminal of mass magnatude,a thief,a murderer.
he is hated by his own.
iraqis live in fear for their lifes every single day,from elements of there own goverment.
his “militia” are doggs who will be put down.
sorry to those yu who bitch every day about the war.
i dont like it,we are going to b paying for it for years to come.but we are america,we do the christian thing,we help.
and to all yu violent anti-war peace protesters,
shut up stay out of my way or ill put a boot in your hypocritical ass.
stop causing problems here,or youll be whinning from jail or the hospital.
im not a violent person,but any-one comeing to the us better be carefull,cuz if the goverment dont get ya…..the people will………..

Re: WestSideHK’s comments. He claims lack of bias by U.S. news media and claims Al Jazeera to be pro Saddam etc. Does he not have an open mind on these matters? I currently offer my full support to all combatants in Iraq, USA/UK coalition forces and also those Feddayhin and Iraqi soldiers who fight for their causes. They are all heroes what ever their beliefs. He ‘crows’ about ONLY 28 American soldiers dieing! That’s 28 too many. They should not be there in the first place. On examination of Al Jazeera’s output it seems to me that the bias is more concentrated on the human tragedy being inflicted on innocent Iraqi civilians than any bias towards Saddam and after all they are an Arab organisation so one would expect them to be more Arab orientated. The images broadcast by them are clearly real and reflect the actual suffering of ALL involved. I find Al Jazeera a refreshing change from the sanitized output from USA/UK media. It allows me to see the broader picture and strengthens my belief that this war has little merit. Perhaps WestsideHK will read these comments and reflect. I hope so. Incidentally, WestsideHK, your comments re. the IRA indicate to me that you support terrorist activity, but appear to be a little selective in your choice of terrorist. That’s strange…..

Why more and more Americans read the news in British webs? Cause American media are the most partial and subjective media in the world (not to talk about their scarce level of analysis).

I am not Arab, nor a US citizen. Just a reader of media worldwide. I can say AlJazeera is more independent than CNN and most American Media. And that’s what most of people of every ideology think about that here- Europe.

Learn from AlJazeera instead of boycotting them, Uncle Sam!

There are more anti-war people out there than the poles show and to prove it we have got to be LOUD everyday. We americans are going to have to start talking and thinking about this war rationally if anything is going to change.

Peace
Ashamed in the USA

BUSH BUSH, WE KNOW YOU
YOUR FATHER WAS A KILLER TOO.
SHAME SHAMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE USAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

In a free and a peacefull world such as the usa ,human suffering has long been overshadowed by a successfull economy , staggering life of entertaintment and a tainted media.The appearance of sept.11th was a dark day in american history,but,will it stop their?.The current bombing campaign by the usa is the same actions taken in the past that resulted in the creation of human minds capable of such hatred against the americans.2000lbs cluster bombs sure does sound nice a military gadget,but the constant bombardment of one city with millions of people living in it..is simply much much a tragedy than the sept 11 the americans were to come across.This might in airpower is much more a cowardly act in war as a suicide bomber.This war in iraq could honestly be said as the beginning of a clash that might not see the road to the end.If america was a land closer to the middle east or in its surroundings i am sure the anger of those terrorist would have simply been shown on the americans in a different way thus leading to a war that would have shown the american public the pain of starvation, bloodshed and what a “shock and awe” bombing campaign really is.The current bombing campaign in iraq is nothing but mass murder,not even the weapons of mass destruction ever could cause, in such a gruesome way of destroying and disrespecting human life,wherever it might be.

farwin,
ontario
canada

Their has been much sadness in the world of late,not in war torn iraq,but right here in the united states.What am i talking about?
The abuse of kids by priest,The raping and sexual torture of young children from beverly hills to new york city,abductions ,kidnappings,drug addiction,teenage pregnancies,beastiality,gun culture,financial extortion by big corporations such as enron and arthur anderson,election fraud-where the candidate with higher votes is somehow pushed out”florida”-ring- a- bell,
These are some of the things mainly occuring in the united states of america in large numbers and in a constant pattern during the last few decades.How could the united states of america go about promoting their freedom and lifestyle with such sins and satans to hide and worst of all..how could someone accept their examples in life.Its been a long journey now since world war 2,the usa began with the only atomic bomb used on civilians, which was in hiroshima,japan.Then the massacre of so many vietnamese.Their is more of course but is their use to it being mentioned.One country is going about making tremendous mistakes with lives of human beings as they were an experiment and yet it still wants to be the saviour of the world from a man known as saddam hussein.Honestly ask yourself the question,what do we know about saddam that did not come out of the state department of the usa?
And could saddam himself cause the pain and suffering of the people or destruction of a city filled with schools and houses in his whole life time that the usa has done in 10 days with its bombing campaign.
George .w. bush and the united states has shown no difference than hitler and his germany of world war 11.The best remark i could make at a time where humans are slaughtered for a cause that is fictious in nature is”FOR EVERY IRAQI KILLED ,THEIR IS A SOUL FILLED WITH REVENGE AND AMBITION TO SEE THE AMERICANS SUFFER, BE THEY BUTCHERS OR SAINTS BECAUSE THEY COULD NOT STOP THEIR OWN UNELECTED LEADER “.Sept 11th should have been taken as a road to ceasefire and a withdrawal from hostilities because it brought the ball to the americans in the form of blood ,bones and cement thus saying “it hurts us too when you bomb with the f-16 or a tomahak,whether the missile strikes an office tower or a small house the pain and blood is mutual”.I believe if an empire strong as the roman empire could collapse in this human life of ours then the destruction of the united states of america is closer than the sun.

Have you ever asked yourself?…….what is murder?
Whether its a soldier,bin laden,pilot or a president does not have the right or the moral belief to take another human life in any form whether using a plane filled with people or a fighter jet filled with cluster bombs dropped from the sky.Thus resulting in the verdict all american and coalition troops are on a mission of murder with or without their knowledge as the global saying goes”THE PEOPLE AT THE TOP PULL THE STRINGS AND THE POEPLE AT THE BOTTOM JUST DANCE TO IT”.
today on the news i was watching a footage of a civilian van filled with families accidentally struck by a mortar shell best suited for a military tank.The usa calls it an accident but would this accident have happened if they were never their.so the steps have been set in motion for a world filled with hatred,despise,disgust,disrespect and revenge all aimed at the citizens of one nation,which is the “UNITED STATES OF AMERICA”.why not russia,china,japan,france or the united kingdom.The answer is …….for you to decide..is it because the usa is a saviour that their is hatred or is the hatred because of jealosy towards the american success.All we can say to those whose hair,eyes and brains are blown apart in iraq by american bombs while americans sing,dance,golf,surf listen to their president is someday justice will be done,though honestly i find it hard to imagine justice other than if you could call sept 11 th justice.Exactly my point,terrorist act,……….do you really expect these people to steal american warplanes and then bomb every one of the 50 states..impossible isnt it and then say they are the middle eastern iraqi airborne division and expect the world pardon them for their crimes.The point is ,their is no point made unless human life has been lost in large numbers for a lesson to be learnt.I strongly believe the americans have simply shot them selves in the foot.I cant count more than a handfull of countries where an american is welcomed for his kindness rather than for his wealth,but i could imagine a hundred countries where an american would be despised,spat at,kidnapped,hated,ejected from colombia to iran.The point is made…..

FARWIN

TORONTO
ONTARIO
CANADA

Have you ever asked yourself?…….what is murder?
Whether its a soldier,bin laden,pilot or a president does not have the right or the moral belief to take another human life in any form whether using a plane filled with people or a fighter jet filled with cluster bombs dropped from the sky.Thus resulting in the verdict all american and coalition troops are on a mission of murder with or without their knowledge as the global saying goes”THE PEOPLE AT THE TOP PULL THE STRINGS AND THE POEPLE AT THE BOTTOM JUST DANCE TO IT”.
today on the news i was watching a footage of a civilian van filled with families accidentally struck by a mortar shell best suited for a military tank.The usa calls it an accident but would this accident have happened if they were never their.so the steps have been set in motion for a world filled with hatred,despise,disgust,disrespect and revenge all aimed at the citizens of one nation,which is the “UNITED STATES OF AMERICA”.why not russia,china,japan,france or the united kingdom.The answer is …….for you to decide..is it because the usa is a saviour that their is hatred or is the hatred because of jealosy towards the american success.All we can say to those whose hair,eyes and brains are blown apart in iraq by american bombs while americans sing,dance,golf,surf listen to their president is someday justice will be done,though honestly i find it hard to imagine justice other than if you could call sept 11 th justice.Exactly my point,terrorist act,……….do you really expect these people to steal american warplanes and then bomb every one of the 50 states..impossible isnt it and then say they are the middle eastern iraqi airborne division and expect the world pardon them for their crimes.The point is ,their is no point made unless human life has been lost in large numbers for a lesson to be learnt.I strongly believe the americans have simply shot them selves in the foot.I cant count more than a handfull of countries where an american is welcomed for his kindness rather than for his wealth,but i could imagine a hundred countries where an american would be despised,spat at,kidnapped,hated,ejected from colombia to iran.The point is made…..

FARWIN

TORONTO
ONTARIO
CANADA

It’s sad .. bloody sad the whole damm mess.

I kinda feel like someone is screwing with my head.

Sure Sadaam needs to go, the people of Iraq need this to happen. I have had plenty of Arabs say this to me.

I just can’t help feeling that Bush and Cheney have some other agenda as well.

It couldnt be oil … could it surely not ?

I do support this war , even though I hate myself for doing so. My greatest fear is that when its all over Iraq will be a basket case and a Bush Cheney company will have secured rebuilding and distribution rights in Iraq.

Greetings From Sydney

Interesting that those who are “shaming” the USA are the same individuals who don’t live here…yet, but deeply desire to. Shame on anyone from any other country who doesn’t know what it took to get them to where they are now. You have obviously forgotten the ingenuity and the fortitude with which it took to stop a trio of madmen almost 60 years ago (Hitler, Mussolini, and Hirohito). They dominated the world, walking into France, Poland, Greece, China, Korea…just to name a few. If it hadn’t been for men and women from the United States and Great Britain…along with some very brave folks in Russia, the world would have been split up by those fascist dictators.

Have you also forgotten the BILLIONS of dollars that the US has GIVEN away with NO hopes of ever being repaid? Or does your economy exist beyond the dollar? You hypocrites! How dare you insult the US or Great Britain! You are snivelling cowards who run from a dictator like Sadaam Hussein because you think you need more “proof”. The only proof you need is found in a whiskey bottle because you refuse to see the tens and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi citizens that Sadaam and his regime have massacred. Their blood cries out and all you can do is sit in judgement on a righteous man like George W. Bush! You are hypocrites because you bow down to the dollar every day and worship it like Sadaam wants you to! He has no desire for you to see the mass graves that are filled to overflowing with the innocent men, women and children who refused to merely follow him. He has no desire for you to see the tens of thousands of Iranian soldiers that he butchered. He has no desire for you to see the hundreds and possibly thousands of Kuwaitis who were tortured, maimed, mutilated, raped and murdered for merely being from Kuwait. Open your eyes for ONCE and see what the truth really is. You ARE blinded by the dollar if you think that this is what the war is all about. You sit in your nice warm home, in freedom, typing on a computer that, for the reality of it all, 99% of the world will never see or own anything like it. You piss and moan about people who are willing to rise up and stand against an evil tyrant like Sadaam—who claims to be the reincarnation of King Nebuchadnezzer of the Bible.

SHAME ON YOU! YOU are the REAL hypocrites here…not honorable men like George W. Bush and Tony Blair. SHAME ON YOU! You are fake! You are phony people who are guilty of the blood of thousands of innocents because of your inaction. The US and UK (and all coalition countries) will be found guiltless and blameless. Unlike you.

I never thought I would live to see the day my respect for USA or UK would wane, let alone feel outraged at blatant large scale inhumane and immoral actions by one of those two nations.

Man, shame on every English speaking person on this planet for not throttling the living …. out of that pencil chested little President and his little suppository Prime Minister.

We all know the issues and there is really not much to debate about, this war is TOTALLY wrong.

I’m confused, perhaps you’ll help me. Two questions: both pertaining to law. 1. When did it become legal to smear pepper spray gel in the eyes of a restrained arrestee? Isn’t this torture? 2. When did it become legal to hunt down and assassinate political leaders? There are stories on CNN and MSNBC regarding covert assassins roaming Baghdad, looking for Saddam and his relatives, to shoot them on site. Is this Legal? Even Bush would be entitled to a fair trail. Freedom of assembly is guaranteed by our constitution, but the results would likely be unprovoked torture. I suggest you don’t complain (about anything) or you’ll get your dose! Thank God for the internet and alterative media; http://www.indymedia.org, et al.

Uhh, Jeff…What exactly are you basing those statements on exactly?
One thing I hear time and time again is that anyone opposed to the war is somehow in favour of Saddam. Why don’t you do a little more digging to see exactly what role your “hero” has with Saddam. Then you will realize that this war is little more than a soured relationship between former business partners.
Oh by the way, Paul Wolfovitz is satan. There is just no way around it.

“The people don’t want war. But after all, it’s the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it’s always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it’s a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy.
All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger.”

“Fascism, the more it considers and observes the future and the development of humanity quite apart from political considerations of the moment, believes neither in the possibility nor the utility of perpetual peace. It thus repudiates the doctrine of Pacifism—born of a renunciation of the struggle and an act of cowardice in the face of sacrifice. War alone brings up to its highest tension all human energy and puts the stamp of nobility upon the peoples who have courage to meet it. All other trials are substitutes, which never really put men into the position where they have to make the great decision—the alternative of life or death….”

-Benito Mussolini

Well, Aaron, we all have our own perspectives, I suppose.
Comming from a more socialist country, I don’t get the McCarthist heebie jeebies.

Uhh, Jeff…one more thing…I don’t live in the U.S., nor would I ever want to. You couldn’t give me one advantage to living in the U.S. over where I am now. Not ever.

Wow Jeff what a comment! I’m really tired of hearing that the Americans and only the Americans saved the world from Hitler. As a proud Canadian I must tell you to go visit France, Holland, Germany, China, Korea (and yes Vietnam as well, however why there I don’t know.) just to name a few countries to see the CANADIAN Cemetaries where thousands of graves are laid where brave Canadians lost their lives to free Europe.(note: Americans refused to enter that war in ‘39 when England asked for help, stating not their war. It wasn’t untill ‘41 two years later after being attacked at Pearl Harbour that you decided to get involved)
Also Canada has given billions of dollars in aid to third world countries as well.
As well as the former late Canadian Primeminister Lester B. Pearson won a nobel peace prize for creating the UN Peacekeeping Troops. You know the ones Jeff, those peacekeeping troops who go into those countries to set up red cross aid and peace in the towns after the Americans haved destroyed them be it militarily or econmically or polictically for their own gains! Oh wait I’m sorry…..I’m starting to rant like a uneducated American, Sorry.

Wow Jeff what a comment! I’m really tired of hearing that the Americans and only the Americans saved the world from Hitler. As a proud Canadian I must tell you to go visit France, Holland, Germany, China, Korea (and yes Vietnam as well, however why there I don’t know.) just to name a few countries to see the CANADIAN Cemetaries where thousands of graves are laid where brave Canadians lost their lives to free Europe.(note: Americans refused to enter that war in ‘39 when England asked for help, stating not their war. It wasn’t untill ‘41 two years later after being attacked at Pearl Harbour that you decided to get involved)
Also Canada has given billions of dollars in aid to third world countries as well.
As well as the former late Canadian Primeminister Lester B. Pearson won a nobel peace prize for creating the UN Peacekeeping Troops. You know the ones Jeff, those peacekeeping troops who go into those countries to set up red cross aid and peace in the towns after the Americans haved destroyed them be it militarily or econmically or polictically for their own gains! Oh wait I’m sorry…..I’m starting to rant like a uneducated American, Sorry.

Hey Jeff

1 ¿You saved the world? what an ego; the US government (not the ppl) is not the savior of the world it is the bully of the world.
2 living in the US? yeah right, to get mi children killed by a classmate because a bad grade and/or he’s not popular.living in a country where the president didn’t get the majority of the votes,of those few who voted; they give you panem et circenses and you are happy

3 US gov. never helped anyone without getting something back,they have assasinated country leaders allover the world because of economic interests, those not of the us ppl but the big corporations and breaks every treaty it signs before the ink dries ¿liberating iraq? sure… so the Oil is not an issue, ¿why does the bush family have a construction company which has had tight bussiness relationships with the binladen family for many years?¿why bush says that only US firms will have reconstruction contracts after the war some of them already awarded?
thats all for now because I would fill pages and pages about this;
btw as im not as educated as Mark from Canada (beautiful country) respectfully ¡you are a jackass!

Think of this….what occured 60 years ago,was a stepping stone victory for the united states in defeating “hitler”…how did hitler get so powerfull…because ..ah ha…the success of a nation and the growth of its military power, simply becomes irressistable for some present day HITLERS such as none other than “GEORGE.”war”.BUSH”.Around the clock bombing on baghdad today had estimated the release of 1600 bombs….how can anyone survive this one sided air attack by a bunch of pussy ass americans too scared to fight on the ground unless big daddy air power reduces the muscle of the iraqi army.
The american soldiers just look pretty ..and of course..mighty…only in movies.
2,000,000 million vietnamese killed and 60,000 us soldiers during that war.Please remember..it was the might and the power that gave guys like mussolini and hitler the guts to send their troops ,after all they never were in the front lines.Today mr.Bush is going down the same path..lets worry about stopping this tyrant who has a will to be the devil among all obstruction…let me remind you americans…he stole your presidency and your democracy.

Farwin,
canada

Today among the tragedy of the sinking world i smile..with relief that the world finally has united in despising one nation for what it is.Believe me when i say the united states economy will never see prosperity with such a divided world watching every action and every footage of a nation trying so sheepishly to deceive a much more advanced generation of people than their ever has been.
How can you explain to the world the placing of soldiers on the corners of iraq almost one month before iraqs issue was given a chance in the UN or the world to decide wether saddam actually did have any weapons at all that was supplied by the americans.
And of course how convenient for israel to stay so quiet in the sidelines while the usa boasts of a coalition with the uk kingdom…If israel isnt in the heart of the american poison then the cobra was never vicious.

farwin
presently,
canada

I sometimes wonder whether AL-GORE would have done a better job with usa/iraq relations than what the BUSH-WACKERS ARE DOING?…

THE UNITED SKULLS OF AGGRESSORS{U.S.A}
THE UNLIMITED SINS OF THE AMERICANS
THE UNITED SADIST OF AMERICA{U.S.A}

The only people who would ever want to live in the usa are the ones who carried out sept 11th…what a laugh.

If the grass is green in the usa their are enough peasants to take adavantage regardless who a new yorker or a californian is.Just ask the indians?…they will tell you how a bunch of europeans came by and suddenly all that was theirs became yours..yes..became american ..simply otherwise known as…….”THE UNITED STEALERS OF AMERICAS”.

farwin
toronto

Lets not forget the BILLIONS in loans and military aid Mr Rumsfeld and the British gov gave Saddam weeks after the gassing at Halabja in order to keep the war against Iran going, since they were kicked out after the shah western puppet was removed and the oil switched off. And BILLIONS in American Tax Dollars for the upkeep of an apartied zionist state,with more weapons of Mass destruction a president who is a butcher of Shatilla and more than 65 UN sanctions never been applied all vetoed by America. Saddam who admired Lenin and Stalin,s Marksist dialectic socialism. seems about as Islamic or muslim as the multi armed Vishnu. This is OIL as Somalia was Uranium as south America is the opiate for the masses of the sex and drug infested west (and more oil). Jews, Christians & Muslims all lived peacefully in the middle east under True Islam. Judaism, Christianity and Islam Forbid Terrorism.Crusaders who killed anybody for land and gold back then and for land and oil NOW are Terrorists. Civillian casualties in Afghanistan and Iraq through so called democratic war.?
Darwinistic, Man from monkey, Evolutionary ( now totally disproved by modern science) but the lie continues, Paganism, Communism, fascism,nazi’ism Materialism, Capitalism, all propound survival of the fittest crush the weak & thrive on war and terror for their upkeep and all feed on IGNORANCE of people. The True Jews, Christians and Muslims should UNITE against these satanic ungodly ism’s. After all were was the might of this so called Christian America when pagan communist russian wolves started murdering afghanies for nine years and still slaughtering chechins and oppressing anything with an islamic label???????? Mankind should seek knowledge try
http://www.harunyahya.com

The Sept. 11 terrorist attacks were a turning point for the world, one that completely altered its political and strategic balances. Some political commentators even say that Sept. 11, 2001 marked the real beginning of the twenty-first century. Looking back at the century just passed, the most important elements of opinion and belief shaping it were ideologies and the relations between these ideologies. Similarly, civilizations, beliefs and the relationship between these two will work to shape the twenty-first century.

There are claims from some quarters that relations between civilizations and beliefs will be fundamentally characterized by “clashes.” However, quite to the contrary, it is our hope that these relations will be based upon peace and friendship. The Qur’an will serve as the guide for us, Muslims, in this realm. In the Qur’an, God tells us that the differences between people should be a reason for them to seek to know one another better:

Mankind! We created you from a male and female, and made you into peoples and tribes so that you might come to know each other. The noblest among you in God’s sight is the one who best performs his duty. God is All-Knowing, All-Aware. (Qur’an, 49: 13)

In another verse, God specifically calls upon Muslims to treat the People of the Book, i.e., Jews and Christians, well:

Only argue with the People of the Book in the kindest way-except in the case of those of them who do wrong-saying, “We believe in what has been sent down to us and what was sent down to you. Our God and your God are one and we submit to Him.” (Qur’an, 29: 46)

Thus, Muslims should collectively work to establish a system that brings societies different from one another into relationships of mutual tolerance and peace. Certainly it is one of the main duties of a Muslim to invite people of other faiths to join Islam, but at the same time they must treat such people well and justly whether they answer their call or not. Muslims’ constant goal should be the welfare of all humanity, for as God said, “You are the best nation ever to be produced before mankind” (Qur’an, 3: 110).

In the aftermath of the Sept. 11 attacks, however, a dire problem emerged. Certain circles that claim to speak on behalf of Islam, but clearly lack the understanding of the essence of it, work to wreak suffering on humanity rather than striving for its benefit. In attacking and killing innocent people, they committed the vilest sin forbidden by Islam-in other words, they brought chaos to the world. Their violent methods and aggressive messages seething with anger are wholly at odds with Islam. And at the same time, these circles are putting the world’s one-billion-plus Muslims into a very difficult spot.

The Qur’an speaks about such people who misinterpret religion and commit terrorism in the name of faith (3: 7; 27: 48-49). God warned Muslims to steer clear of the forces that are obdurate in “disbelief and hypocrisy,” and against people who fail to perceive the noble morality lying at the core of religion and so employ violence due to their hardened natures (9: 47; 49: 14). In the history of Islam, such groups as the Hashashins and Kharijites used terrorism in the name of religion and sowed disorder in the world due to their own ignorance.

Clearly, this is a truly pressing matter crying out for a solution. Islam should be cleansed of such wicked tendencies, and extremism and superstitions should be wiped away. Muslims must instead be educated about true Islamic morality based on the Qur’an, and in the words of the theologian Imam al-Ghazali, the Islamic world should be “revitalized.”

Problems in the US Policy

Westerners, and especially the United States, the target of the Sept. 11 attacks, have come to recognize this issue, at least in part. Therefore the US administration has begun an attempt to “reorganize the Islamic world” over the next 10-15 years. However, its strategy has two serious shortcomings:

1. The United States should not employ military methods.

The US operation in Afghanistan ushered in an era of military interventions which so far shows little sign of letting up. To take one example, consider the impending war against Iraq. Some observers predict that after it deals with Iraq, the US will proceed to still more military operations against other countries in the Middle East. Such a path, however, will not help the US to reach its goals, and will moreover claim the lives of many innocents. Military methods will inevitably be interpreted as a “war against Islam,” which will in turn only add further fuel to the fires of tension and conflict.

If the United States truly wants to wage a “war against terrorism” it should do so in the realm of ideas and opinion. Terrorism is not a tangible enemy, rather it is a method used by people guided by mistaken ideas. One cannot fight against a method, one can only fight against a force that uses this method. If this force is an opinion, then it should be defeated on the field of opinion. The ideology and psychology that lead to terrorism must be done away with. In their place, people should instead should be taught the real religion based upon the Qur’an, instead of mistaken religious interpretations that result in terrorism.

2. The United States should not try to impose a solution from “the outside.”

The reasoning laid out above shows that it is not right for the United States to try to solve the problem from “the outside.” The problem lies in misinterpretations and distortions of Islam at the hands of certain people, therefore the solution should come from the world of Islam. Muslims could work to promote a proper understanding of Islam and at the same time fight misinterpretations of it. The United States should support a solution originating from within the Islamic world.

Were the United States to support such an approach, this would be better for the US, better for the world’s Islamic community and indeed better for the entire world. Those who claim the opposite should reconsider their stances, realizing in the process that such views are leading the world into a bloodbath. The US administration must be careful not to give credit to the erroneous suggestions of some forces with various ulterior motives. These forces are some ideologues and strategists who want fervently to see a bloody war erupt between the West and the Islamic world, and moreover are trying to portray US anti-terrorist policies as part of a “war against Islam.” The US government, and in particular President George W. Bush, has made sensible statements rejecting such “the-West-versus-Islam” interpretations, and these efforts have yielded some good results. However, it is also necessary that the policies of the US government fully reflect a more enlightened viewpoint in the eyes of international public opinion.

How Should An Islamic Union Be?

So then, the war against terrorism should be carried out in the realm of opinions and ideas, and its solution should originate from within the world of Islam. But how will this come about?

Before answering this question, we must point out one fact: The current divided nature of the Islamic world. Today many different religious interpretations, views and models exist in the world of Islam. However, the Islamic world currently lacks a central authority to separate out doctrines which contradict the faith, a service which would guide all Muslims. The world’s Roman Catholics can look to the Vatican, and Orthodox Christians have the patriarchs, but there is currently no central authority in the Islamic world.

However, there is no division and uncontrolled structure in the essence of Islam itself; on the contrary, there is unity. After the death of the Prophet Mohammed (peace be upon him), the Islamic world was guided by the Caliphate, and this authority became the guide for all Muslims in religious matters.

Though a caliphate would no longer be valid in our age due to its foundations in monarchy, yet it is still possible to set up an authority to act as a guide to all Muslims. In the Qur’an, Allah orders all Muslims to obey “those in command among them.” (Qur’an, 4: 59). Now, the methods used to select “those in command” can be altered according to the requirements of the age (such as through sultanate, appointment or popular vote).It is possible to establish an Islamic Union and a central Islamic authority, which should do a number of things:

This union should do a number of things:

1. It should address the entire Islamic world, and have a firm foundation in basic Islamic values and principles. It should not be the representative of a particular sect or school of Islam.

2. It should support human rights, and free enterprise. The economic, cultural and scientific development of the Islamic world should be its aim.

3. It should establish peaceful, harmonious relations with other nations and civilizations. This Union should work together with the United Nations and the international community to control weapons of mass destruction, fight terrorism and international crime, and protect the environment.

4. The rights of minorities living in Muslim countries—such as Jews and Christians—should be protected, and they should be made to feel both safe and respected. Inter-faith dialogue and cooperation should be given priority.

5. Just and peaceful solutions should be proposed to solve conflicts between Muslim and non-Muslim communities, such as the ones in Palestine, Kashmir and the Philippines. These solutions should involve both benefits and concessions for both sides. Such solutions should protect the rights of Muslims and furthermore prevent the escalation of conflicts to the point of intractability at the hands of radical groups.

Bringing such fair, rational leadership to the Islamic world would be good for both its 1.2 billion Muslims who face so many problems today and for the world at large. The world needs such a Union. Muslims, since the time of the Prophet Mohammed (pbuh), have led the way forward for humanity in science, philosophy, art, culture and civilization, and the masterpieces they created benefitted humanity. While Europe was still living in the Middle Age, Muslims were teaching science, medicine, art, rational thinking, hygiene and many other virtues to the world. Today, just as in the past, a guiding principle based on Qur’anic morality is needed to restart this Islamic revival stemming from the light and wisdom of the Qur’an.

Finally, we must emphasize that this solution should be realized urgently, because the possibility of “a conflict of civilizations” between the Islamic world and the West is growing with each passing day. The possibility of a war in Iraq is close at hand, and if the current situation doesn’t change, other wars will surely follow. Such conflicts will claim the lives of many innocent people. Prejudices and misunderstandings against Muslims and Islam are a persistent problem, and this is also causing difficulties for Muslims living in Western countries. Westerners themselves are living in a state of anxiety due to their fears of terrorism, not feeling safe even in their own homelands. We need a solution that would make these problems a thing of the past.

Truly, the founding of an Islamic Union is such a solution, one that would bring to all these problems a remedy both permanent and peaceful.

America, the so called country of freedom (freedom of speech, press, etc) is so overtly limiting, and in some cases restricting these fundumental principles. Further more they countinue to brag about these freedoms, which are then compared to countries like Iraq, which are said to have none. Who are they trying to fool? My guess is they don’t think too highly of their own people to give them credit for an ounce of intelligence. The United States is controlled by money. Capital (money) sways various political figures back and forth between issues, which is why so many lobbies exist. If you introduce Zionists into this picture everything becomes quite clear on how this situation evolved. (FYI: Zionists are people especially RADICAL Jews who support the existance of israel. These people can be seen behind the scenes in many news channels and movies and always have a hidden agenda.) The popular believe that oil is the cause for this war is only part of it. Iraq has no offensive military weapons. The only ‘threatening’ weapons are the al samud missiles. These missiles can never hit American soil, heck they can’t even reach israel. However zionists are afraid that Iraq is a threat to israel, which is half-true. Iraq just like every middle eastern country detestes the country of israel, and it just so happens that iraq is the most powerful non US ally. After this war if US does win, israel still will not be satisfied. Not untill ALL opposition is destroyed. The next countries which will be in similar situations are Iran and Syria which have interestingly been accused by Rumsfeld, backed by zionists of ‘secretly’ supporting Iraq. Who cares if they did, that is what should happen. Back in world war one with the Lucitania, the US was ‘secretly’ smuggling weapons to its european allys, however when the geramans blew it up the Americans at first denied any smuggling however afterwards were damn proud of it and condoned it. Allys help allys. With zionists in the picture this war turns out to be very racist. Lately CNN hasn’t been broadcasting israeli activities… Americans who call Al-Jazira bias and does not show both sides of story, obviously are ofbased in their opinion since they are so contaminated with the pro-war side. If you are worried that you will be missing out on some of that pro-war, zionist crap just flip the channel to FOX, CNN, MSNBC to say a few. They aren’t forcing you to watch it, so why do they have to sensor it. DISH networks is facing alot of pressure from zionsts on airing the aljazira channel, if this isn’t a violation the the First Amendment… For days now the Aljazira website has been not only hacked but blocked from even entering. There is a notice that since there has been so much traffic increase they had to shut down the domain service. This is all BS. Either zionists or the government which is controlled by zionists is responisble for this. Avangalists may also have their hands in this religious as well. Israel cleary has violated the many un resolutions however the US isn’t going in their and releasing their ‘peace makers’ (really really big bomb). Much of the world is opposed to this war. INFORMATION IS FREE, SHOULDN’T IT BE? PS: For those of you who ‘support the troops’ for the heck of it should realize that it is a brainwashing tactic used by zionists and the government. Obviously if you support the troops you support the war. WATCH THE MATRIX 1: WHICH PILL DO YOU CHOOSE THE RED (CNN, what they want you to believe) OR THE BLUE (Al Jazira, reality) THE CHOICE IS ULTAMITLY YOURS (i hope)

American People are so brainwashed I cannot consider americans as humans any longer GOD Bless
America and all this garbage Unfortunately we are in the year 2003 and not in the year 1851!!

The world evolves and emerging while you Backward Yankees keep your selves seperate from this Universal union, You Americans promote legitamite terorism invading other peoples countries and killing there children!

Well for Yankees the whole wide world hates you for your EVIL actions and it is not safe any longer for any Yankee to travel Abroad. STAY HOME YANKEE!! AND LEAVE THE WORLD IN GODS HANDS AND KEEP YOUR SATANIC HANDS OFF THE REST OF THIS PLANET.

You once called the USSR The Evil Empire WELL It IS GOOD to know that the whole wide world know that GREAT BRITAIN and the USA are THE LAST EVIL EMPIRES ON THE PLANET, WELL THE GOOD NEWS IS THAT THERE ARE POWERFUL enegies imposed on Great Britain These Energies are far more powerful than BLUR or BLAIRS WAR MACHINE, THESE ENERGIES are dismantalling Great Britain, bricks on by one.

BY the Year 2010 There will be NO MORE GREAT BRITAIN and THE LAST EVIL EMPIRE WILL BE LEFT ALONE YOUR TURN IS IN THE YEAR 2019-2021! you will live to see that CHINA will be the next super power that shall restore law and order on the planet diminishing the old savage and barbaric rule of the Anglo-Saxons

When Al Jazeera expands its Arabic-language programming to offer an English-language website and eventually a full satellite broadcast, it could dramatically influence the way Americans perceive many Mideast issues.

The decision to launch the website in February and the satellite TV station next year speaks to the Arab concern that U.S. coverage of the Arab world is often incomplete and presented from the context of how it affects Israel. The Qatar-based network has been criticised for the same faults, accused of being biased and anti-American.

In truth, the news is a business influenced and driven not only by journalistic principle but also by the needs of the audiences. Al Jazeera officials say they decided to offer news reports in English because there is an increased interest in their coverage, especially among American audiences.

Al Jazeera has frequently provided news reports that are translated into English and carried by U.S. news outlets such as CNN.

But it’s not enough to speak English. You must also learn how to speak “American” to influence American audiences. Al Jazeera must do more than simply translate its broadcasts.

It must apply basic principles of journalism that speak to the needs of American audiences.

If it does, it could help Americans better understand the Iraqi viewpoint. It would be fascinating to see how an Iraqi war would be covered. But it is unlikely this can be operating before the outbreak of war. The most we can expect is that Al Jazeera could influence coverage of the long-term Palestinian-Israeli conflict.

Since September 11, Americans have shown they want to know more about the Arab world. Americans are a compassionate people who often side with the underdog. In America, perception is reality. The truth of an issue is sometimes less important than how it is presented.

An English-language Al Jazeera could put a human face on Palestinian victims of Israel’s military occupation and awaken American compassion.

It might even soften American eagerness to attack Iraq. It’s easier to believe a friend than a stranger, or to hate someone you don’t know. No other medium makes you feel like you “know” someone more than TV, and having an English-language website that is accessible to anyone could certainly help begin to fill the gap.

Al Jazeera does present an Arab view, but it’s not propaganda. Americans often see the human side of Israeli suffering but view Palestinian suffering in terms of statistics. It’s not a “15-year-old boy” or “nine-year-old girl” killed. These are people with lives and families left to cope. There is a strong case to be made against Israel’s assertion that most Palestinians are terrorists or that the killings of civilians are accidental.

Few Americans cared when the United States blocked the United Nations’ criticism of Israel’s role in the killing of three U.N. workers, but they might have felt differently had they seen Al Jazeera’s interviews with the victims’ families or witnesses to the attacks.

Israeli policy of “collective punishment”, or destroying homes of innocent families related to “suspected’’ terrorists, or images of their tanks rumbling through Bethlehem’s streets might have evoked greater American outrage if these tragedies were played out on TV.

Israel’s attacks often take the lives of innocent civilians. When Israel used American-made F-16 fighter jets last summer to kill a suspected terrorist, they also killed his wife and four children, nine other civilians and five more children. Several nearby buildings were demolished.

Images of that devastation replayed constantly by Al Jazeera tugged at the heartstrings of Arab audiences and fed their anger at America’s one-sided support and seemingly uncaring attitude toward Arab dead.

Arabs don’t “hate” America, but they are angry with the U.S. policies.

Given time, Al Jazeera could push Americans to ask serious questions about a war in Iraq.

An English-language Al Jazeera might recast the focus of the conflict from Saddam Hussain to the people of Iraq, who are as much the victims of Saddam Hussain’s brutality as they are victims of the American-enforced UN embargo.

Al Jazeera could help the Arab world level the playing field, and offer facts rather than the stereotypes. But most of Al Jazeera’s American subscribers are Arab families. The real challenge for Al Jazeera is not whether it can be fair, but whether it can reach Americans and get them to watch.

As powerful as the images can be, they’re useless if you don’t log on or turn on the TV.

Tony Blair says he is doing this for the Iraqi people!

Sanctions have killed at least 1 million Iraqi people since 1991 [WHO figures]
42% of the Iraqi population are children
Blair and Bush are bombing the combination of a refugee camp and a playground.

I personally think and pray that the U.S and Britain will loose just like they are at present. Where are the embedded journalists on the front lines? They sure were excited when the coalition starts invading, they don’t look too excited now. They only reports the casualties they inflicted, perhaps to show the mighty americans are winning when the west media has to repeat the same story over and over since not a lot of winning stories to report back I suppose? And pardon me, why is it that the american’s four stars generals ‘frowns’ when the war are doing ‘remarkably well’? SHAME on the americans for causing the innocent to die. SHAME on the americans for fighting an unjust war from their comforted cabin. SHAME on the american for revealing their lies after rallying the call ‘Saddam must be disarm of Weapons of Mass Destruction’- which yet to be revealed. SHAME on the americans for bullying a country that has been under tight economic welfare for the last 12 years. SHAME on the americans for causing hatred amongst the world community. SHAME on the americans when you can have a good night sleep and the people of Iraq has the sleepless night just because the cowardly act of the americans who prefer bombing rather than fight man to man. SHAME on the american for under estimating the strength of unity within the Iraqi community. It is SAD to watch children dies. It is SAD to watch a country turn to rubble. It is SAD to watch elderly mourns their young ones. It is SAD to watch the Iraqi desperate for food and water. Saddam might have killed so many in his reign, but with the rate the american invaders are going, the so-called american liberator sure will cause more death toll on civilians if given half the time Saddam had. The war is for oil and the jewish supremacy and has nothing to do with liberating the Iraqi, disarmament of ‘Weapons of Mass Destruction’ or Saddam himself. Just as 9/11, a conspiracy. Osama is nothing but a point for the americans to rally it allies and in future – to extract the wealth the Afghan people no longer owns. There are more jews works in the Twin Tower than any other but yet none showed up and get killed. Where are the explanation and the logic? Why do you need to go to war and be humiliated like the Russians when you can brutally kills your own non jews civilians and capture Afghanistan? My heart prays deep for the fate of the Iraqi, for what now the war has started, no matter whom won, the Iraqi people would be deprived of their love ones, belongings and an ordinary life just like you and I dream for. Besides, has anyone come across a country that starts a war and won? Sincerely, I dare those who oppose my view speaks out.

why dosent cnn show dead civilians of iraqs and why does it first lie that basra was captured by british troops and then deny that fact later ?
why did cnn show palestinians distribute sweets after 9/11 happened, when acculately those incidence happened a long time back when iraq bought freedom to kuwaiti people in 1991.why did they record and replayed it during 9/11.why does cnn compose hounting musics when americans die and no such musics when americans killed the millions of iraqi children during 10 years of sanctions ?keeps going ………….?
think u all people

why dosent cnn show dead civilians of iraqs and why does it first lie that basra was captured by british troops and then deny that fact later ?
why did cnn show palestinians distribute sweets after 9/11 happened, when acculately those incidence happened a long time back when iraq bought freedom to kuwaiti people in 1991.why did they record and replayed it during 9/11.why does cnn compose hounting musics when americans die and no such musics when americans killed the millions of iraqi children during 10 years of sanctions ?keeps going ………….?
think u all people

Blub…”Iraq brought freedom to Kuwait?” excuse me but you should ask someone for toilet paper… beint that you are full of it.
Iraq (Sadam) has never brought anything but despair and pestilence where it has been to.
The underlying question here is DOES THE US HAVE THE RIGHT TO INVADE IRAQ AND OUST SADDAM. The question isn´t whether Saddam has been good for Iraq..that´s a no brainer.
The US has no business invading a country without a UN charter and on a very shake pretext( WMD) and then not providing the world with proof of their allegations.
I don´t believe Iraq has afforded anything positive for the wqorld since Husseis has been inpower.

I think we are living at the end of mankind. Iraq is the beginning and the end of civillization.Soon every corner of the earth would be a frontline for the hatred caused by the jewish supremacy. Thank God Hitler did a good job.
Imagine if those 6 million jew multiply? We would certainly be in heaven if not hell.

I think we are living at the end of mankind. Iraq is the beginning and the end of civillization.Soon every corner of the earth would be a frontline for the hatred caused by the jewish supremacy. Thank God Hitler did a good job.
Imagine if those 6 million jew multiply? We would certainly be in heaven if not hell.

Yikes!
Hate fuelling hate…Eddy, don’t generalize.
Yes, there are some really evil Jewish people behind this (Paul Wolfovitz, for example), and of course, the Bush family – but they aren’t Jewish, are they?
You can’t simply sit there and berate Hitler-like invasion and cite Hitler as a great guy on the other hand. It’s ridiculous.

Oh, and the funniest thing that I ever saw, and I am NOT making this up, was a Jewish skin head.

Yikes!
Hate fuelling hate…Eddy, don’t generalize. After all, I don’t think it’d be fair to say that all Americans live in trailers and marry their cousins, nor would it be fair to say that all the english eat are fish and chips, etc etc etc. Surely there is a generalilzed stereotype about your ethnic background?
Yes, there are some really evil Jewish people behind this (Paul Wolfovitz, for example), and of course, the Bush family – but they aren’t Jewish, are they?
You can’t simply sit there and berate Hitler-like invasion and cite Hitler as a great guy on the other hand. It’s ridiculous.

Oh, and the funniest thing that I ever saw, and I am NOT making this up, was a Jewish skin head.

I strongly adree with eddy on the issue that this is the beginning of an hidden gaenda to bring an end to peacefull life.IS THIS THE BEGINNING OF THE REVENGE OF THE JEWS?…

a good question as it might be, the answer eludes us..yesterday colin powelll spoke openly about the support the USA has given israel.Which all along was what BIN LADEN was saying,Fina;lly the truth comes out?….was bin laden right on the money?…keep wondering where bin laden is these dayz?

FARWIN
TORONTO

i am just a part time resident of canada.It disgusts for me to see canadian people crying about the fact that they are not in the war with america.How silly people want to be murders for the sake of american business.What apathist are you you canadians?.and the same time i had to flee my country because of american bombs in 1998 and move to jordan and now i am thinking why am i living among a bunch who cry to be slaughterers and beg yes beg for american recognition.How would you canadians like to take your kids to hospitals with sharpanel wounds to the head,hand and body caused by cruise missiles from the sky.
Think you people…war aint no sport..i wonder how you sleep at night and i now understand why you brutalize and sexually abuse your own children.The west is the pest!

yousuf
refugee in canada from iraq.

Most of us Americans are not bad sorts. I’m fairly certain our elections are rigged by the power that be. The polls could be rigged too, for that matter.

That said, you have to understand that the venom laid against Americans in general would be misguided. I’m, admittedly, among a minority who would consider myself a fervent internationalist.

Just like anyone else, most Americans are too busy in their day-to-day activities to pay attention or research the facts. In all matters and realities the unfortunate truth is that all debate is usually
contained within the middle and upper economic classes (which usually includes the entire educated population) of any given society. The choice between Democrat and Republican is typically little more
than deciding which millionaires will be leading us. Right, wrong or indifferent its a fact of logistics and practicality. Try running an election campaign while simultaneously working 40 hours (which actually consumes 55 hours) if you care.

There is no shortage of Americans who oppose this war. Those that do support it are driven by xenophobia, fear, hate, vengeance, financial gain and the “pride” of military glory. There is no reasoning with people driven by greed or irrational thought.
I pity the Iraqi people and the US soldiers who have been thrown into this. Despite this being a dispute between Saddam and Bush, both will likely walk away from this unscathed, which is unjust in and of itself.
Despite what the historical illiterates say, this is only the second time the US has actually invaded another sovereign country.

Yes, the US has decapitated leadership in Mexico, El Salvador, Chile, Panama, etc………
Yes, the US has repelled occupational forces in France (WWII), Kuwait, Pacific islands, North Africa…
Yes, the US has banished colonial forces in Cuba, Phillipines, etc…..
Yes, the US has deterred invading forces in Korea, Vietnam, China (WWII)……

The US did invade Italy in WWII. It immediately surrenderred but was then commandeered by the Nazis. Fighting went so slow the invasion was barely consequential to the war. D-Day (consequentially liberating France), a year later proved decisive in bringing about the collapse of the Third Reich.

So what is the lesson, to relate to Iraq? Nothing. The run-up stories (propoganda) seemed to imply a similar vacillation as it occurred in Italy, except noone to hijack the helm.

Assuming no other countries come up to bat on Iraq’s behalf, it will fall. Bush is playing a stupid and dangerous game taunting the likes of Iran, North Korea and Syria and alienating Europe, the ME and Turkey.
If Bush was smart, he would have focussed on the creation of three states out of Iraq. A US friendly Shiite state in the south and a US friendly Kurdish state in the north. Such states would create significant buffers between Saddam and the rest of the region as well as unlock two-thirds of the oil.
But nooooo that’s not enough for him, he’s got to go for it all.

If America is trying to export it’s democracy to Iraq! Why then does it beat up it’s own people who oppose war and demonstrate on the streets of NYC!? Surely democracy is about freedom of speach!

If you don’t think this war is about OIL, then why is it that the majority of the US top officials have all held top positions in major OIL companies!? And most still do!

If the US wants peace in the middle east, then why does it pump billions of US dollars in military aid to Israel!?

I also remember CNN not so long ago showing live pictures of a Palestinian child with his farther when they were being shot in cold blood by Israeli troops, was that ok then!?

Well done Al-Jazeera the world needs to see the truth!

JP
Yopur comments on US intervention are assertive, but anachronic, that was then…when you had a vast mayority of the general US public who had never travelled abroad or spent any time with people of different cultures.
The new US has some people that are truly cosmopolitan, citizens of the world that understand the need for a strong INTERNATIONAL community…not these barefoot “Jesse Helms, living in the 50´s people”
Bush is not a Jew, but he is a puppet of Jewish interests. US Jews are probably the fiercest most agressive force on the face of the earth. They are keen, intelligent, hard workers and yes…the most racist people youi will ever meet in your life! I believe Wall Street and Hollywood have united and have been shaping the mainstream of US thought for some time now. Let us not act surprised in this conflict, it has been brewing for a long, long time.

Anyone have anything to say about National Geographic firing Peter Arnett for giving an interview to Iraqi TV? Seems like an amazing bit of hypocracy for the news institutions in the US -
the champions of free speech – at least by their own account – to fire a respected journalist for giving a balanced opinion on the progress of the war. Hes not even American.

I was just reading through some of the earlier posts and noted one about how Japan attacked the US without provocation and likening it to Saddam Hussein, and how nuking Japan cost less lives than an invasion would have and how they still didn’t give up until the second.

OK. Here we go.

1: Which version of history do you refer to? The Japanese surrendered before Hiroshima.

2: “And they still didn’t give up..” you say. So what is this a reference to? Is it like the idiot military leaders who were surprised that the Iraqis didn’t just give up? Whether you are right or wrong, if someone invades your country, you will defend it with everything you have.

3: Again I say that America wasn’t the great champion in WW2 many people have claimed. Maybe they did make the difference between Allied and Axis victory. How long do you want people to be grateful?

And again I remind you that America didn’t care about what was happening in Europe until it concerned them. For all they cared, all Europe could have been under German control.

I was just reading through some of the earlier posts and noted one about how Japan attacked the US without provocation and likening it to Saddam Hussein, and how nuking Japan cost less lives than an invasion would have and how they still didn’t give up until the second.

OK. Here we go.

1: Which version of history do you refer to? The Japanese surrendered before Hiroshima.

2: “And they still didn’t give up..” you say. So what is this a reference to? Is it like the idiot military leaders who were surprised that the Iraqis didn’t just give up? Whether you are right or wrong, if someone invades your country, you will defend it with everything you have.

3: Again I say that America wasn’t the great champion in WW2 many people have claimed. Maybe they did make the difference between Allied and Axis victory. How long do you want people to be grateful?

And again I remind you that America didn’t care about what was happening in Europe until it concerned them. For all they cared, all Europe could have been under German control.

Wow – just finished reading this page too. Terribly sorry for the slow catch-up. Was away at a wedding all weekend.

Jeff, Jeff. Y’know I kinda feel sorry for you. But only kind of sorry.

Yet again I say, America is not the saviour of the world.

Now the comments about America defeating Hitler – I can’t find the reference right now, but I recall reading various documents about how the US, via UK ambassador Joe Kennedy – knew of the proposed “Final Solution” prior to its implementation and tacitly supported it with his government’s approval. Of course it very quickly became unpalatable to them.

Does anyone recall any references to this?

Like others have said – I have absolutely no desire to live in the States. There are some areas that are really beautiful that I would like to see, and there are many wonderful people I would like to meet (you, Jeff are definitely not one of them). But to live there? No thanks.

“The only proof you need is in a whiskey bottle”? Say what?

And as many people, including myself, have said: So he is a murdering tyrannical dictator. So what? Who the hell are you to say that he should be cast out by a massive military force that bowls over everyone else in its path? If this is such a big deal, why now? Why just Iraq? Sorry, Jeff, but if you think getting rid of Saddam is the issue, you’re wrong. Why your beloved Mr Bush has said so himself (sorry, that should be Himself). He said that even if Hussein goes, and even if they disarm, they will be invaded.

And we sit in a nice warm home typing on a computer. Are you saying we take that for granted? Your comments imply a state of luxury most of the world cannot afford. This coming from the most affluent – or is it effluent – country in the world? So what do YOU do to prevent world hunger and poverty? How do you contribute to the relief effort throughout Africa, Asia, South America? How do you contribute towards the thousands of starving people in your own country?

Do not accuse us of hypocrisy.

Forget all that happens in iraq today.The picture into this is much larger.

On sept 16.2001 the devi “GEORGE.W.BUSH” made this comment on tv which i believed jus jumped out of his mouth by mistake untill the soldiers appearedin iraq after afghanistan was done.

this is what he said quote ” THIS CRUSADE AGAINST THE TERRORRIST……..”

Its a known fact that a young male from the middle-east could easily be called a terrorist now ….

the simple use of the word crusade by that man signifies the extent to the broadness of this conflict.Crusaders as we know were the christians who battled with peopleof islam many centuries ago.

The resurrection of this word by an emotional leader is highly disturbing.Specially when we live in world of mixed society.

America or rather the leaders of the american empire{i believe not all americans want to rule the world}has judged the military of the middle east and believe its no match for its army.

If history should repeat itself i believe their is a strange twist and a surprise waiting to happen.

The preparation and everything about this war seem to be well staged ,even the details about the progress of the us army into iraq etc.

something is a miss…a surprise is waiting to happen! we’ll see

after all,the muslims did rule the world once and the arabians moved as further west as they could into europe and further east intochina and india..even ceylon where even to this day their are muslims among budhist.
The point being ..they fought against a power with better ammunition and gun powder and did overcome them.

Never forget the british first made it into baghdad around 1917 after big battles withe then persian army.The british first discovered the oil patches in iraq.

The sad thing being the oil for all drained and invested in by the engilsh and the french and was later joined by the americans who were excludedtill then.

Only after the oil was nationalised did iraq bgan to prosper and build roads,city planning and schools etc.

Is it going to happen again?
lets keep wondering…

Nicely put, Gravey!

Captain Rationale,

I didnt say Hitler is a great guy, i said he did a good job. Just like what Bush’s are doing, invading, but we need yet to see if he can delivers as Hitler once did eventhough he put a bullet in his head. Bush’s task is a bit easier since that he is against one nation under 12 year of sanction and an opresser whereas Hitler invade, how many was it, 5-6 nation? C’mon big bully fight someone your size, its not heroic to tell your grand children when you beat up a sick man would it?

Thumbs up JP, good view. Too bad the selfish never listens.

Explain something to me please. The U.S. invades Iraq and the lines begin forming for arab men to blow themselves up as martyrs. Yet for the 20+ years that Hussein thugs, raped, gassed, murdered, etc. the arab men either joined up, hid, or fled to other countries. Why no suicide bombers against the evil Hussein? Perhaps the “martrys” could have ended his reign, and the present day war would not have happened. I am beginning to believe that arab men are largely insane.

Explain something to me please. The U.S. invades Iraq and the lines begin forming for arab men to blow themselves up as martyrs. Yet for the 20+ years that Hussein thugs, raped, gassed, murdered, etc. the arab men either joined up, hid, or fled to other countries. Why no suicide bombers against the evil Hussein? Perhaps the “martrys” could have ended his reign, and the present day war would not have happened. I am beginning to believe that arab men are largely insane.

um, Eddy, I don’t know if we should be waiting to see if Bush can deliver like Hitler…That just doesn’t sound right, does it?
Besides, Bush has little to do with it…more like Wolfowitz and Perle..

DD,

I’m not sure I would agree with your assertion about the Jews. Believe it or not, Bush doesn’t care about the Jews. They are predominantly Democrats.
Consider Barbra Streisand and Joseph Lieberman. Radical evangelical protestants (religious right) have siezed the mantle of Israeli defense, but not necessarily
for the sake of the Jews but in anticipation of the fulfillment of Biblical prophecy. Threats or premonitions of a quagmire or this thing exploding doesn’t deter, in fact
it encourages. Bush very well may be among this ilk. Cheney, Wolfowitz, Perle and Rumsfeld are dazzled by our technology and blinded by delusions of grandeur

Sharon and his Lukid party are a bunch of SOBs. Of course they think they can decapitate Palestinian leadership. They decapitate their opposition’s leadership in
Israel’s Labor party too. Anyone who doesn’t toe their line is declared a “self-hating Jew”. In fact the irony is there is little difference between them and the Islamic
radicals that assassinated Sadat of Egypt “for conceeding too much”. The apparent difference is that one isn’t a terrorist if he doesn’t wear a turban.

And to attempt to explain Amy’s question: I think the Iraqi population is experiencing “abused wife syndrome.” He’s bad, mean and cruel, but she loves him and refuses to
leave him. I don’t intend to be cold in this explanation, but that pretty much sums it up. The situation is ridiculous and crazy and the victims are made irrational in time, although the
beginnings probably seemed normal and reasonable. I would not be surprised if Saddam suffers a similar fate as Italy’s Muselini. But there will be no celebrations until AFTER
Saddam is confirmed dead by credible sources.

And who is to say the fundamentalist Islamics don’t have the same prophecies in mind?

> >A monologue by Canadian comedian Rick Mercer from “This Hour Has
> >22 Minutes” on CBC Television:
> >
> >—-
> >
> >On behalf of Canadians everywhere I’d like to offer an apology to
> >the United States of America. We haven’t been getting along very
> >well recently and for that, I am truly sorry.
> >
> >I’m sorry we called George Bush a moron. He is a moron but it
> >wasn’t nice of us to point it out. If it’s any consolation, the
> >fact that he’s a moron shouldn’t reflect poorly on the people of
> >America. After all, it’s not like you actually elected him.
> >
> >I’m sorry about our softwood lumber. Just because we have more
> >trees than you doesn’t give us the right to sell you lumber
> >that’s cheaper and better than your own.
> >
> >I’m sorry we beat you in Olympic hockey. In our defense, I guess
> >our excuse would be that our team was much, much, much, much
> >better than yours.
> >
> >I’m sorry we burnt down your White House during the War of 1812. I
> >notice you’ve rebuilt it! It’s very nice.
> >
> >I’m sorry about your beer. I know we had nothing to do with your
> >beer, but we feel your pain.
> >
> >I’m sorry about our waffling on Iraq. I mean, when you’re going up
> >against a crazed dictator, you want to have your friends by your
> >side. I realize it took more than two years before you guys
> >pitched in against Hitler, but that was different. Everyone knew
> >he had weapons.
> >
> >And finally on behalf of all Canadians, I’m sorry that we’re
> >constantly apologizing for things in a passive-aggressive way,
> >which is really a thinly veiled criticism. I sincerely hope that
> >you’re not upset over this. We’ve seen what you do to countries
> >you get upset with.
> >
> >Thank you.
> >Rick Mercer Above is tongue in cheek

JP
I liked the comparison to “abused wife syndrome”…it very well could be so. But the fact remains that NO ONE likes to have his homeland invaded, especially by a super power that has long been seen as a defender and proponent of Iraeli power in the region.
The Iraqui may hate Saddam…but they also hate the US.
Will the US continue to invade countries it believes to have regimes contrary to the French ideals of 1789?
The whole matter here was WMD (weapons of mass destruction), how the Iraquis had “tons” of them that could eventually end up in “Ward Cleaver´s” back yard…that still has not been proven!

It does get boring when the generosity of the US is bandied about over and over again as a sign of the `goodness` of America. Granted they give the most in amount of dollars but that is only recently. It also tends to use its aid as a political tool, so as to help the donor(US) and not the receiver. Besides to really tell of the generosity of a nation you need to compare aid given against how much a country makes. So jeff take note, if i earn a million dollars and give in aid 5,000 am i more giving than the man who earns 100,000 and gives 4,000? her is a url of interest if you want to see how global aid really breaks down. The Danes should be proud. Read this and then try and talk of generous america. http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/USAid.asp

I find it quite difficult to believe that the pro-war faction
actually believes the propoganda that is being pasted all over the media.

This ‘war’ has been planned for years & years, and it takes
little imagination to trace its roots.

Resolution 1441 was tabled to, in effect, disarm Iraq and it was
tabled by the states. Who hasn’t heard the “wimps go to Baghdad, real men
go to Tehran” quote?

Sheesh. The Americans have to, I think, do whatever is in their
power to, not only rid themselves of Bush, but to rid themselves of
the silver-spooned behind-the-scenes people who actually believe that
the world wants this “American age”.

Democracy doesn’t seem to work either. If the functioning illiterate hillbilly
has the same say as the most astute political scholar in the matters of government selection,
it’s no surprise that it seems to be this same illiterate which the media is playing to.

I don’t think anyone with even a little bit of intelligent
rational falls for any of this media propoganda.

A vote makes no distinction between gender, or race,
or even intelligence, for that matter.

I hope the pro-war crowd likes where they live, for I think the states will have to
build a REALLY big fence around their country after this is over.

And if indeed the states are ‘the exception’, well, it’s the obligation of
‘the exception’ precisely to maintain the rule.

Baby souls is an apt and fitting term for these bad kids lashing out
in their fear, pulling legs off of spiders.

Oh ya, Bush does indeed seem to be living up to his ‘moron’ label.

Mike
from Canad

I think that this war is so much uncalled for.The American media is practising what we call patriotism and not journalism. How could they be so happy and not outraged at the bombing og another media network just like themselves. You know I always said that America was the land of the free. But obviously they are a bunch of conniving,jewish, bloodsuckers who only want other peoples wealth to uild their own.You all are just like the British, raid a country and put ownership on their wealth, and the country it originally comes from cannot have direct claim to it. Saddam might really be a bad man, but Bush, you must be SATAN’S ADVOCATE. I hate all you Americans who support the war on Iraq. Mrs. Rice and Col. Powell, you are just the pawns in your Jesuits, Illuminate OR WHATEVER you will call their nasty organisation, because when they get what they are really after, then all hell will break lose here on earth for MUSLIMS,BLACKS,INDIANS and most likely anything that is not JEWISH.

DD,

It is all a matter of a conflict between the turn of the century concept of “manifest destiny” versus Cold War containment. I am of the
Wilsonian stock on this matter, with the view that people are basicly good and should have their choice as to who should lead them. Bush’s
doctrine of playing God, seems counter-intuitive, arrogant and unwise. Like we Americans would or could know what is best for any given
people except ourselves. For him to encourage to defamation and ridicule of two of America’s principle cultural soulmates: France and Canada,
is unconsciencable.

None of Bush’s advisors lived or presided over the pre or post Cold War eras. They refuse to accept its end. They are narrow-minded
thinkers who can’t function beyond an “us against them” mentality. It gets hard when there is no “them” in the equation.

It is a given that the US will attack others after Iraq. Bush has already thrown down the gauntlet in regards to Iran and North Korea and has
given Syria the evil eye. Time and closure are clearly of no concern, as Afghanistan is hardly much better (if not worse) than before.
This means they have weeks or months to make some critical decisions, whose ramifications to their own people, Americans and their neighbors
could be catastrophic and tragic. Bush doesn’t seem inclined to offer back doors, so the cornered animal analogy becomes relevant. Fight or flight – no flight, then fight.

My concern is that Bush will be biting off way more than the US can chew, which could very well at best result in the deaths of tens of thousands of
innocents and at worst stoke a global conflict resulting in the deaths of tens of millions of innocents.

Well put JP!

I have not read much of this thread, so it is possible this has been covered, but I would like to hear anyone willing to defend Bush and his administration explain the difference between their idology and Fascism.

Response to Amy:

Very good point. The people who are up in arms (literally) over the fact that foreigners are invading their homeland should have been equally up in arms that a tyrant was oppressing their people.

But I guess that, to them perhaps, having a foreign warlord is worse than having a domestic one.

But I agree, the Iraqi people perhaps should have done more to overthrow Hussein. The fact they didn’t suggests:

They weren’t all that fussed about it – after all, if it wasn’t affecting them personally, why should they care. You know the kind of attitude.
They had attempted many times but were put down (again, literally) and would keep on trying until they succeeded.
The tyranny isn’t all it is made out to be.

Personally, I think it is a combination of all three.

Imagine Mr Bush has a real power-rush and decides that this gosh-darned Congress/Senate/Parliament thing is just too constricting, and implements an Empire, with him at its head. All civil liberties are dispensed with and, despite its great size, he uses the local marshalls and fear to keep the rabble under control. (Anyone get the reference yet?)

Britain and other countries decide that this is too dangerous and invade to depose him. They will, of course, run the country until the democratic process can be re-established.

Whose side would you join?

Yes, kind of like Palpatine

Well done Guys, The USA helped the Allies destroy the past fascist dictators of the world and now that they have gotten rid of all the other fascists of the world they have figured it is time the USA took the place of the world’s big fascist.

Careful USA, you can have the biggest and best weapons in the world, but what wins wars is time and the undefeatable human spirit which has ALWAYS overcome ANY dictatorship EVER!

This stupid war of yours has lost you guys a LOT of friends and, although it might not be soon, what will DEFINITELY happen is “pay back time” but be assured, the USA’s actions WILL be repaid one day.

What goes around comes around, ask any previous dictator.

Let’s see what happens after the last round of this fight, there are still a lot more rounds to come, eg North Korea. My money says the USA are too scared of a real fight and that North Korea frighten the living faeces out of the Pentagon.

Good luck Yanks, and don’t cry when your number’s up! You can definitely tear up your telephone book because a lot of your old mates are too disgusted to be called your friends.

I never thought I would ever see the day the USA became a fascist dictatorship! Man what a shame.

I used to listen to some of the Arab population voice their conspiracy theories and assume they were just fed propaganda from their own leaders. I ask everyone to seek knowledge in all things. The more I read the more I understand their viewpoints.

Some of you out there understand what I mean. Hey…didn’t Israel announce they will reopen the pipeline from Iraq to israel now?????

My prayers are with all the coalition troops who are just obeying orders and doing their job. I would assume many of the soldiers there are quietly disgusted with their mission. May this war end soon. My prayers are with the Iraqi people. Each Iraqi civilian that dies is a complete tragedy as is each US/UK soldier. My prayers are with our leadership…may God guide them instead of greed.

I used to listen to some of the Arab population voice their conspiracy theories and assume they were just fed propaganda from their own leaders. I ask everyone to seek knowledge in all things. The more I read the more I understand their viewpoints.

Some of you out there understand what I mean. Hey…didn’t Israel announce they will reopen the pipeline from Iraq to israel now?????

My prayers are with all the coalition troops who are just obeying orders and doing their job. I would assume many of the soldiers there are quietly disgusted with their mission. May this war end soon. My prayers are with the Iraqi people. Each Iraqi civilian that dies is a complete tragedy as is each US/UK soldier. My prayers are with our leadership…may God guide them instead of greed.

Well done Guys, The USA helped the Allies destroy the past fascist dictators of the world and now that they have gotten rid of all the other fascists of the world they have figured it is time the USA took the place of the world’s big fascist.

Careful USA, you can have the biggest and best weapons in the world, but what wins wars is time and the undefeatable human spirit which has ALWAYS overcome ANY dictatorship EVER!

This stupid war of yours has lost you guys a LOT of friends and, although it might not be soon, what will DEFINITELY happen is “pay back time” but be assured, the USA’s actions WILL be repaid one day.

What goes around comes around, ask any previous dictator.

Let’s see what happens after the last round of this fight, there are still a lot more rounds to come, eg North Korea. My money says the USA are too scared of a real fight and that North Korea frighten the living faeces out of the Pentagon.

Good luck Yanks, and don’t cry when your number’s up! You can definitely tear up your telephone book because a lot of your old mates are too disgusted to be called your friends.

I never thought I would ever see the day the USA became a fascist dictatorship! Man what a shame.

I was in europe the past 2 weeks and saw a great deal of anti-american sentiments and anger towards america. Not surprisingly it is understood why people hate america so much but if only the ignorant Bush administration will see it clearly. On top of being american I am from texas. It is almost a sin tobe a texan (the Bush state) outside of america. American people are fed too much hogwash tv with biased media. These days in america even free speech is not free anymore. People in america needs to wake-up and smell the coffee; there is another world outside of america.

Texas, USA

I was in europe the past 2 weeks and saw a great deal of anti-american sentiments and anger towards america. Not surprisingly it is understood why people hate america so much but if only the ignorant Bush administration will see it clearly. On top of being american I am from texas. It is almost a sin tobe a texan (the Bush state) outside of america. American people are fed too much hogwash tv with biased media. These days in america even free speech is not free anymore. People in america needs to wake-up and smell the coffee; there is another world outside of america.

Texas, USA

Some of the above posts, claim that the USA and Britain are losing the war. This just shows how stupid and ignorant some people are. Everyone who watches any REAL news channels like CNN or MSNBC, knows that the USA has and is kicking Iraqi ass. Iraq has proven to be a cowardly, pussy army, that has only managed to kill 47 US soldiers. We on the other hand have killed 2,000 Irasqi soldiers and hundreds of Fedayeen. Scum bag news likr Al Jazeera, like to lie to the arab people, and tell them the US is losing, but America knows the real story.

PS. How come Al Jazeera hasen’t talked about the torture of brave US Soldier Jessica Lynch. Lynch is a tuff, brave soldier who has more courage then any of Iraqs punk ass soldiers. AL Jazeera sucks american dick and so do most of the ant american scum on this board.

Some of the above posts, claim that the USA and Britain are losing the war. This just shows how stupid and ignorant some people are. Everyone who watches any REAL news channels like CNN or MSNBC, knows that the USA has and is kicking Iraqi ass. Iraq has proven to be a cowardly, pussy army, that has only managed to kill 47 US soldiers. We on the other hand have killed 2,000 Irasqi soldiers and hundreds of Fedayeen. Scum bag news likr Al Jazeera, like to lie to the arab people, and tell them the US is losing, but America knows the real story.

PS. How come Al Jazeera hasen’t talked about the torture of brave US Soldier Jessica Lynch. Lynch is a tuff, brave soldier who has more courage then any of Iraqs punk ass soldiers. AL Jazeera sucks american dick and so do most of the ant american scum on this board.

To WestSideHK: Sure the US is winning the war. Do you have Al Jazeera??? I haven’t heard them say Iraq is winning. There is no winner in this. Hundreds are dead already and they are not just soldiers. For once in your narrow minded, foul mouthed life you should consider yourself in the shoes of the Iraqi people who don’t even know why they are being bombed. The world is sad about this war because innocent people are being killed. Most hate the Iraqi regime but as we all know the government doesn’t always represent the people. Let’s all just pray that the US does what it says it came to do and liberate the Iraqi people and let them choose how the country will be rebuilt and run. One thing for sure US will rebuild their country with american companies and pay those companies with Iraqi oil money.

You people are idiots. I come here to get a good chuckle and you never cease to provide. I won’t hold my breath for the downfall of the USA as many of you hope for. Name one superpower ever in the history of the world that hasn’t tried to take over the world. There isn’t one. Trust me, the USA does not want to annex Iraq or any other piece of crap 3rd world country. We can get our oil the old fashioned way – we buy it from the Saudi’s. Next time any of you fools talk on the phone, type on your computer, take a ride on an airplane, or watch a good movie – remember who brought it to you. Another question – what good has any Arab country done for mankind in the last 1000 years or so????

Are you serious, your_daddy?
what kind of idiot statement is that?
have you ever read a history book that wasn’t solely american history?
Doesn’t seem that way.
What about their contributions to science and mathematics? What about the fact that they were the only heavily scientific people during the dark ages when Christians were keeping their populaces ignorant and illiterate?

America is just an empire, and empires do fall, be it now or 100 years from now, or 1000.
And as for taking over the world, yes we remember “superpowers” like the Nazis trying to take over the world, as well as older empires: the French, the British (who came closer than anyone else has or likely will) the Mongols, the Ottomans, and the Romans to name only a few. But none succeeded and I would argue that it is impossible to rule the world. There are far too many people, and they are far too spread out. I don’t care how big your army is, you can’t beat down 6 billion.

Oh, and as for previous comments about why Al Jazeera hasn’t played any footage on the American POW - well I don’t know. Since they don’t have an english language broadcast, and no western networks carry Al Jazeera. So can you really be surprised that you haven’t seen it?
And by the way, Al Jazeera is known for pissing off a lot of Arab “regimes” for reporting exactly what they see.
And if they suck American dick, doesn’t that make America completely gay?

Why is it if the US media is biased, we are reporting incidents of civilian casulties like the family van that was fired on. What possible motive do we have. We investigate every single mishap and take responsibility for things that are our fault. Why isn’t Al-Jazeera reporting on the humanitarian aid reaching the Iraqi’s through the coalition forces. Why aren’t they reporting on the Fedayeen shooting civilians who are fleeing cities. Why are they giving creedance to the ridiculous parade of fools in the Iraqi regime who claim they are winning the war. When we are 20 miles away from them. Why don’t they report on the hospitals and “sacred” mosques being used as Iraqi military headquarters. Why aren’t they losing credibility. The southern Iraqi towns haven’t had clean drinking water for 12 years and now they do thanks to the coalition.

Roger, give me some of that crack you’re smoking because you are definately high. We have elections every 4 years. For 8 years previous to Bush’s term, a liberal democrat was in the White House-hardly a fascist. Bill chose to let Saddam get away with kicking out inspectors and since 9/11 happened we have decided to weed out all potential terrorists and terrorist supporters. If you or your country support terrorism, you’ll be next. It’s that simple. Do you people not believe we are serious about this yet. Did Afghanistan have oil??? Everyone here needs to recognize that the only reason France and russia aren’t for the war are monetary reasons. Who knows what the Chinese think – they fire upon their own students – paranoid commies!

Well captain, in my engineering courses we learned calculus from Isaac Newton – hardly Arabic. Speaking of Gays – atleast they have the freedom in America to be gay. If 1/10 of all men are gay like they say – what happens to the Arab gays??? Probably persecuted just like their women.

Here is an idea. BUSH should take Texas, divide it into 2, and make it into the new state of Isreal. Then we’ll see what happens!

As you may have learned outside of engineering, Calculus isn’t the only form of mathematics. However essential it is to your area of study.
Second of all, no Afghanistan has no oil, but long before 9/11 oil was discovered in the Sea to the north of it, and the U.S. did all they could to get a pipeline for it. Of course, the pipeline had to pass through Afghanistan and Iraq. Afghanistan, and the American-created Al Qeada were business partners in the beginning. In fact, Al Qeada operatives were to be flown to the U.S. to study related fields in pipeline construction and maintenance, and special programs were developed at a number of Universities. Maybe even yours?
Then there was some kind of falling out with Afghanistan and the Al Qeada – some reports suggest that Afghanistan wanted more than they were being offered by the U.S. Hard to say whether or not this triggered the 9/11 incident alone, but it may have been a factor.
And yes, France and Russia do have economic motivations for their opposition. But to suggest that the American government alone acts on moral principle is a joke. Governments DO NOT act on moral principle. They act on general consensus and agenda. Take morality out of the equation and you have economics. It’s all about the oil.
America has 6% of the worlds population and consumes more than 50% of the oil resources. The resources are dwindling, and producion has slowed considerably in the last 20 years because of that.

As for supporting terrorism, I don’t think anyone who has posted here does. Which is why a number of us speak against this war. War is terrorism. If your country was invaded for whatever reason, would you not be terrified? Wasn’t Peal Harbour terrifying? 9/11? Being against the action of war does not mean you support Saddam or his bloody regime. But the U.S. put him into power in the first place, then went on to give him everything he needed for his gas attacks on his own people. People protesting and speaking out against the war suggest that there are althernatives to blowing up everything in the country. And as for the people not having clean water for the past 12 years, well that was because of the coalition. Those sanctions that the U.S. put on Iraq has given them a disparaging infant mortality rate by not allowing medical supplies into the country.

And again I ask, how do you know that Al Jazeera isn’t reporting the American side? Do you live in an Arab state? Do you speak any form of Arabic? If not, where do you expect you would get to see Al Jazeera within the U.S.? And if the U.S. media were biased and you thought they weren’t, how would you know? If they were biased they would not cover stories that would make them look bad, now would they? To suggest that ANY news coverage isn’t biased is a joke. These are human beings after all.

Is it the coalition’s fault Saddam was building palaces with the money Iraq made – Pleeeeese use your head. That’s why there’s no water/medicine/food in southern Iraq. The sanctions were meant to punish Saddam, not the Iraqi people. Saddam is living in the lap of luxary and its our fault????

I’ve seen many people post on here that they want to see more USA bodybags and that is sick. Sure, our government doesn’t work on morality alone. Nobody’s does. Our government is trying to protect the citazens from more terror. We are not tyrants, power hungry (we have enough power), evil, stupid, what have you. We are leading the world in space exploration, medicine, engineering, economic and humanitarian aid, and business. Enough USA bashing. We are trying to help. Trust me, our media is very critical of the government. They jump all over anything that is even half a story. Like I said previously – our press is reporting the good and bad stories about our side of the conflict (see checkpoint story).

Thank goodness for the Captain!

Must admit, when I first read your posts I thought “here’s a bit of a jerk” – but I have re-read them and realise my error. I am really pleased to see intelligent, reasoned comment.

One can identify those who provide such reasoned intelligent comment. They don’t resort to calling people names or using undue profanity. They don’t make childish remarks.

To those like your_daddy (and if you are a daddy, a really feel sorry for your children), grow up.

You say that you would get your oil the good old fashioned way – buy it from the Saudis. Surely not the Saudis who are the next on the list for invasion? Surely not the same Saudis who are these no-good arabs you speak of? Gosh no, couldn’t be them. And why would you want to buy oil when you can invade a country and take it for free?

You know, they said they would stay around only as long as was needed to restore democracy. Know what they are now saying? That will take more than a decade. Maybe a generation.

And if money is your concern, you do know that the general expert opinion is that, if you think the war is expensive, controlling the country afterwards will make it look like small change.

It is kind of like – it doesn’t cost all that much to get what you need to break in to someone’s home and take it over. But to take on that house’s mortgage and running costs as well as your own? Kinda expensive.

How do you feel about your american tax dollars being used to run another country?

I think we all need to take a breath here and look at what we are saying.

Many people (probably me included) have been making quite sweeping, generalised statements. We all need to remember that they are generalisations.

When people talk about “America” or even “Americans”, they are not talking about all of them, all the time (whether they realise it or not).

Much of the talk of tyranny in the States is levelled at Bush himself. As our Prime Minister rightly pointed out, there probably wouldn’t have been a war if a Democrat was in power. There may be a whole lot of other problems, but not the war.

Bush is on public record for making various statements that allude to a crusade.

I believe most of the talk about America is directed at Bush and his administration, but also, to a lesser extent, to the perception of the general american psyche. America has developed into a country giving the impression of plastic, falseness, power for power’s sake, jingoism and bullying. That may well be true, in the same way that New Zealand still has the psyche of “she’ll be right, blokes play rugby, drink beer and watch the races while the women folk stay out of the way and keep in the kitchen, high achievement for such a small nation, etc.”

That doesn’t mean these things are predominant, and I am pretty much as far from that psyche as can be, but it is something that is in the national sub-conscious.

So it is the national sub-conscious of the States that people really talk about.

Now, as for the comment about body-bags, well, I don’t really know what was said – couldn’t find it – but I would guess that people are saying “If you saw the real face of the war – dead people, body bags, families torn apart, people severely injured, displaced communities, terrified soldiers, confused soldiers, people might just appreciate what war means.

The American entertainment industry does tend to prefer sanitised entertainment. And after all, that is all the war is to many people – entertainment. Something to watch on TV. Funny – y’know. Same as 11/9 (British date format) people comment about the reality with comparisons to movies and TV. Doesn’t this say something about the way we think about things?

You know, between the lack of historical knowledge and the complete absence of logical thought here, I’m getting kind of worried about you people… “Fact” seems to be a very fluid thing to you all. (I’ve read fact-claims here that are audacious lies that make me blush.) “Reason” here seems to waver between the paranoid and the chauvinistic, but it would fail a basic logic course. And of course, when at a loss for an argument, slip in profanity and call it profundity.

Oh: and there’s absolutely no good-will, without which this kind of debate is so much wasted chatter.

Still: for a bunch of paranoid, racially charged, self-righteous people with small intellectual skills, you’ve all got a lot to say.

I’d except the Islamic theologian above who analyzed the future of Islam and democracy: that’s rather well done!

So, a pox on both your houses. Au revoir!

Just had a quick look at the world atlas and guess what, I found USA. For those who can’t find the place just look at the arse end of the globe (see it?…that bush between Mexico and Canada?)

Okay, now, look carefully and you’ll see they call it “Bush” because of the size of it’s Charlie….. miniscule. That’s why it needs to pick a fight with sick old Arab women and Children to make it feel good about itself.

Mind you this is isn’t the first time these losers have picked a fight, the last time they picked a fight it was against primitive cave men in Somalia and they got their cowardly butts kicked and then they had to ask a bunch of rookie Pakistani tanks to help them out of the crap. Can you believe that??

Before that they tried their luck against starving Vietnamese women and Children and they got their butts kicked by them too I know it’s incredible, but true!

Man even those wussie French beat the Vietnamese up for years (successfully too) and yet those Yankee wankers couldn’t make it with 10 times more men and equipment than either the French or the Vietnamese Hehehe, what losers!!

So anyway, Blair gets a call from the little Bush asking if he’d mind sending a few Brits to show his guys where Iraq and Baghdad are and now the Brits have lost more men to the Yanks than to the enemy! Yes ….Again!…..

Believe it or not, true to form, like every other battle, the Yanks beat up their own mates (and allies) more than the enemy

So Bush decides, man, this is EMBARRASSING So he calls Nelson Mandela to ask if there are any Zulu warriors willing to help show his marines which way to point to their little weapons and Mandela says “Grow up you spoilt semi literate little prick, I’m a South African and it was a South African who drew up the original Charter for the United Nations and received more standing ovations in your silly little Congress than any American President ever did, so bugger off and go tear up another International Agreement or Accord”.

So Bush phones that four eyed little dog turd down under and asks if he could send a few men to show his wussie army which way to point their guns and the lying, cheating little creep says”…no worries mate, we’re Australian, we only need one man for every 1000 Arabs, so we’ll send 2000 SAS” that’s why there are at least few real men in Iraq today.

So anyway, Bush gets real brave and decides “man, we really can do it” and he attacks Iraq “… at a time and place of HIS choosing…”? I don’t think so, someone had to choose for him, you can bet your bottom dollar on that too.

Oh Yeah, I forgot, Bush also phoned New zealand and some female called “Prime Minister” answered and she told him “.. Man I would’nt want to be seen in bed with you even it was big enough to be visible!!”

Graham,

I don’t know who you are but if Americans are such wusses, why do we dominate the Olympic games, mate???? The fastest, strongest, and most dominant pure atheletes in the world are in the National Football League. Imagine if Barry Sanders, Walter Payton, Emmit Smith, Jerry Rice, Michael Jordan, etc, etc had chosen to play your incesantly boring futball (soccer) – we would dominate that too. We are the land of the rich, powerful, and our women are better looking too. Deal with it. Be jealous. If you don’t like it carry your pansyass down here and talk more smack, mate!

By the way. We will DOMINATE the next world cup. Bank on it. And these are probably our worst atheletes.

Now look Graham, that was not necessary. You might have hurt some American’s feelings! Shame on you, we all know the Americans are God fearing people who are on a crusade to rid the world of the “evil doers”, the least we can do is cheer every time a child is maimed or a mother decapitated or a father slaughtered, don’t you get it? It’s called freedom, liberty, democracy, Christianity etc.

The world really does owe that great nation an incredible debt of gratitude, Rumsfeld taught us that torture is okay if it happens in Cuba, actually, he even said it’s “legal”, see? Brilliant We really have to thank him for sharing that wonderful legal acumen with us all.

President George Bush taught us not to be complacent about people who do not obey United Nations resolutions, he has painstakingly taught us all that the way to fix it is to simply tear up the whole Charter and then blame France for using it’s veto for the 17th time while the USA used the same veto over 270 times. I hope you see the picture, we are really not listening carefully enough.

We really are a little harsh on that gentle and kind Bush regime, after all, didn’t they teach us that democracy is empowering a man to the office of President while another man enjoys the majority of the vote? Don’t you get it, democracy is not about the majority of the people, it’s like the Communist Manifesto, you know, the electoral college, where the guy who comes second wins. Why are you so confused? It’s simple.

And all this fuss about a few dead Arab women and children, I don’t get it, after all, it’s not as though they are American taxpayers or anything. Can’t you see? We should be learning all about liberty from their actions, we should learn that liberty is about torturing prisoners “legally” and punishing regimes who do not uphold the resolutions of the same United Nations which we should learn to also completely ignore.

We should learn the brilliant legal acumen by being bright and intelligent enough to blame the French for the whole fiasco because they used their veto 10 times less than those wonderful kind and caring Americans.

And as for even thinking that the Iraqi’s got their weapons from the Americans in the first place, well, we all know that telling that kind of truth could get you into serious trouble, especially if you are a world class reporter working for an American news agency. Just don’t do it, it’s not right. Think, we should be celebrating the brilliance of a nation who can veto a United Nations attempt to stop the use of USA supplied chemical weapons in the Iran/Iraq war and be the same nation to blame France for using the same veto against declaring war over the same weapons. What is your problem? Can’t you see that this nation has all the qualities of a great world leader?

Hey I even heard they invented writing and mathematics and that the Nazi Werner von Braun was not really a German because he was actually an American who put the USA rocket programme on the map (for those who can’t speak English, it’s “program”)

I am so relieved we have such intellectual giants guiding our poor backward planet into the future, aren’t you?

Hey, your_daddy, at least we play our rugby without tights and cotton wool pads – you gay wuss!

Man am I glad I’m a european, that your_daddy guy genuinely believes we’re jealous of the USA!! That’s real sad because one of the biggest reasons I am warm to Americans is because I feel so sorry for their sorry asses every time they arrive in Monaco and need an introductory period for the purposes of civilising them for their stay. As for their women, well, as a woman enthusiast I will not comment because I feel ALL women are gorgeous, but I somehow suspect your_daddy prefers his women decapitated by cruise missiles, I wonder why?

Man am I glad I’m a european, that your_daddy guy genuinely believes we’re jealous of the USA!! That’s real sad because one of the biggest reasons I am warm to Americans is because I feel so sorry for their sorry asses every time they arrive in Monaco and need an introductory period for the purposes of civilising them for their stay. As for their women, well, as a woman enthusiast I will not comment because I feel ALL women are gorgeous, but I somehow suspect your_daddy prefers his women decapitated by cruise missiles, I wonder why?

That’s all for me tonight, you guys have been fun and given me a laugh before I’m off to bed. I guess I hit a soft spot with that dose of reality about the superiority of our atheletes. Sorry guys, I know the truth hurts…Ciao

Well, given that we’re down to slanging matches about sports it looks like this comment thread has exhausted itself. Comments on this post are now closed. Thanks for all the contributions.

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