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	<title>Comments on: Hats off to D-Squared</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2003/05/01/hats-off-to-d-squared/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2003/05/01/hats-off-to-d-squared/</link>
	<description>Sociology and other distractions</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2008 10:33:43 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<item>
		<title>By: Crooked Timber &#187; &#187; Dept of Being Savaged by a Dead Sheep</title>
		<link>http://www.kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2003/05/01/hats-off-to-d-squared/comment-page-1/#comment-2296</link>
		<dc:creator>Crooked Timber &#187; &#187; Dept of Being Savaged by a Dead Sheep</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jul 2007 20:46:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kieranhealy.org/wordpress/?p=392#comment-2296</guid>
		<description>[...] doesn&#8217;t like me much in part because she&#8217;s has a long history of making an ass of herself on the topic of economics and its status as a social science. Again, just bear in mind that the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[...] doesn&#8217;t like me much in part because she&#8217;s has a long history of making an ass of herself on the topic of economics and its status as a social science. Again, just bear in mind that the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Stentor</title>
		<link>http://www.kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2003/05/01/hats-off-to-d-squared/comment-page-1/#comment-1249</link>
		<dc:creator>Stentor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kieranhealy.org/wordpress/?p=392#comment-1249</guid>
		<description>The social sciences have this weird love-hate relationship with &quot;science.&quot; In geography at least, you get half of us begging to be considered a real science and the other half denouncing science as a reactionary servant of capitalist imperialist patriarchy (with mainstream economics as the devil&#039;s favorite tool).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The social sciences have this weird love-hate relationship with &#8220;science.&#8221; In geography at least, you get half of us begging to be considered a real science and the other half denouncing science as a reactionary servant of capitalist imperialist patriarchy (with mainstream economics as the devil&#8217;s favorite tool).</p>
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		<title>By: Invisible Adjunct</title>
		<link>http://www.kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2003/05/01/hats-off-to-d-squared/comment-page-1/#comment-1250</link>
		<dc:creator>Invisible Adjunct</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kieranhealy.org/wordpress/?p=392#comment-1250</guid>
		<description>Sociology was of course a science in the days before Human Subjects Review :)

The question of whether or not, and in what ways, the social sciences are scientific is an interesting one.  But the way it is often taken up (e.g., at the discussion to which you link) just gives me a headache: it&#039;s not so much the assertions themselves as the air of certitude and tone of lofty dismissal.  Ok, it&#039;s the assertions too.  I particularly object to the outright dismissal of entire disciplines on the basis of ill-formed and inaccurate generalizations and half-truths.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Sociology was of course a science in the days before Human Subjects Review :)</p>

	<p>The question of whether or not, and in what ways, the social sciences are scientific is an interesting one.  But the way it is often taken up (e.g., at the discussion to which you link) just gives me a headache: it&#8217;s not so much the assertions themselves as the air of certitude and tone of lofty dismissal.  Ok, it&#8217;s the assertions too.  I particularly object to the outright dismissal of entire disciplines on the basis of ill-formed and inaccurate generalizations and half-truths.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Runnacles</title>
		<link>http://www.kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2003/05/01/hats-off-to-d-squared/comment-page-1/#comment-1251</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Runnacles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kieranhealy.org/wordpress/?p=392#comment-1251</guid>
		<description>Nice job.

The propagation of half-digested chunks of Popper is a real menace.  I can&#039;t help thinking that a healthy dose of Lakatos would do plenty of people a power of good, perhaps leading to fewer outbreaks of this kind of obviously dumb nonsense.  

The problem with popular takes on the philosophy of science is perhaps that practitioners in the &#039;hard&#039; sciences often don&#039;t seem to get beyond Popper, while the whackier elements elsewhere in academe seem to leapfrog straight to Feyerabend and beyond. 

Physics-envy really is a pretty unattractive condition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Nice job.</p>

	<p>The propagation of half-digested chunks of Popper is a real menace.  I can&#8217;t help thinking that a healthy dose of Lakatos would do plenty of people a power of good, perhaps leading to fewer outbreaks of this kind of obviously dumb nonsense.</p>

	<p>The problem with popular takes on the philosophy of science is perhaps that practitioners in the &#8216;hard&#8217; sciences often don&#8217;t seem to get beyond Popper, while the whackier elements elsewhere in academe seem to leapfrog straight to Feyerabend and beyond.</p>

	<p>Physics-envy really is a pretty unattractive condition.</p>
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		<title>By: Kieran Healy</title>
		<link>http://www.kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2003/05/01/hats-off-to-d-squared/comment-page-1/#comment-1252</link>
		<dc:creator>Kieran Healy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kieranhealy.org/wordpress/?p=392#comment-1252</guid>
		<description>Sociology was of course a science in the days before Human Subjects Review :)

Ha! Exactly. Actually, by Megan&#039;s criteria, Dr Marvin  Monroe is a paragon of science. Precise hhypotheses. Eminently falsifiable. And so on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Sociology was of course a science in the days before Human Subjects Review :)</p>

	<p>Ha! Exactly. Actually, by Megan&#8217;s criteria, Dr Marvin  Monroe is a paragon of science. Precise hhypotheses. Eminently falsifiable. And so on.</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2003/05/01/hats-off-to-d-squared/comment-page-1/#comment-1253</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kieranhealy.org/wordpress/?p=392#comment-1253</guid>
		<description>Hey, I have to defend my discipline. Some political scientists are more scientific than others.  Personally, I mainly do public policy analysis, mainly national security stuff, which isn&#039;t particularly scientific.  I&#039;ve done some quant stuff that is, but I&#039;m not sure it&#039;s not all crap.

Sociology can be very good, but usually when it&#039;s interdisciplinary.  Murray and Hernstein&#039;s Bell Curve, for example, was superbly done methodologically. But most sociologists I&#039;ve come across have been more interested in feel-good results than in real research.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Hey, I have to defend my discipline. Some political scientists are more scientific than others.  Personally, I mainly do public policy analysis, mainly national security stuff, which isn&#8217;t particularly scientific.  I&#8217;ve done some quant stuff that is, but I&#8217;m not sure it&#8217;s not all crap.</p>

	<p>Sociology can be very good, but usually when it&#8217;s interdisciplinary.  Murray and Hernstein&#8217;s Bell Curve, for example, was superbly done methodologically. But most sociologists I&#8217;ve come across have been more interested in feel-good results than in real research.</p>
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		<title>By: Brad DeLong</title>
		<link>http://www.kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2003/05/01/hats-off-to-d-squared/comment-page-1/#comment-1254</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad DeLong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kieranhealy.org/wordpress/?p=392#comment-1254</guid>
		<description>No book that fails to talk about multicollinearity can possibly be superbly done methodologically...

But what I really wanted to say is that Steve Levitt cannot be a real economist because he has been described as rabidly antigun.

:-)



Brad DeLong</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>No book that fails to talk about multicollinearity can possibly be superbly done methodologically&#8230;</p>

	<p>But what I really wanted to say is that Steve Levitt cannot be a real economist because he has been described as rabidly antigun.</p>

	<p>:-)</p>



	<p>Brad DeLong</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Lawrence</title>
		<link>http://www.kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2003/05/01/hats-off-to-d-squared/comment-page-1/#comment-1255</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Lawrence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kieranhealy.org/wordpress/?p=392#comment-1255</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t say I share the contempt for sociology as a discipline.  Of course, maybe I&#039;m biased since most of the sociologists I&#039;ve met are (a) hot females, (b) fun to drink with, or (c) both. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I can&#8217;t say I share the contempt for sociology as a discipline.  Of course, maybe I&#8217;m biased since most of the sociologists I&#8217;ve met are (a) hot females, (b) fun to drink with, or&#169; both. :-)</p>
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		<title>By: dsquared</title>
		<link>http://www.kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2003/05/01/hats-off-to-d-squared/comment-page-1/#comment-1256</link>
		<dc:creator>dsquared</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kieranhealy.org/wordpress/?p=392#comment-1256</guid>
		<description>Christ if I&#039;d seen that comment I would have gone off on one.  The crack gang paper is the only thing I&#039;ve ever heard about that Levitt did.

I need to write something about Popper (I need to write something at all ...).  Nine times out of ten, when a scientist says something stupid about anything, you can trace the problem back to Popper.  Maybe we should have a Karl Popper Symposium or themed week or something.

Also, I think &quot;sociology is crap&quot; is one to put alongside &quot;the French don&#039;t do mathematical economics&quot; as things that a surprising number of economists believe without ever having thought to check them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Christ if I&#8217;d seen that comment I would have gone off on one.  The crack gang paper is the only thing I&#8217;ve ever heard about that Levitt did.</p>

	<p>I need to write something about Popper (I need to write something at all &#8230;).  Nine times out of ten, when a scientist says something stupid about anything, you can trace the problem back to Popper.  Maybe we should have a Karl Popper Symposium or themed week or something.</p>

	<p>Also, I think &#8220;sociology is crap&#8221; is one to put alongside &#8220;the French don&#8217;t do mathematical economics&#8221; as things that a surprising number of economists believe without ever having thought to check them.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris K</title>
		<link>http://www.kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2003/05/01/hats-off-to-d-squared/comment-page-1/#comment-1257</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kieranhealy.org/wordpress/?p=392#comment-1257</guid>
		<description>What I really wonder is why economists think they are actually in the same league as chemists and biologists. In France economics is definitely a &quot;science humaine&quot; (and not a &quot;science naturelle&quot; or &quot;science exacte&quot;) and in Germany it is a &quot;Geisteswissenschaft&quot; (not a &quot;Naturwissenschaft&quot;). Just because economists like to tinker with mathematical models doesn&#039;t free them of the reality that they are studying phenomenons that are almost exclusively all the result of human behavior - which remains a great mystery to science as we all know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>What I really wonder is why economists think they are actually in the same league as chemists and biologists. In France economics is definitely a &#8220;science humaine&#8221; (and not a &#8220;science naturelle&#8221; or &#8220;science exacte&#8221;) and in Germany it is a &#8220;Geisteswissenschaft&#8221; (not a &#8220;Naturwissenschaft&#8221;). Just because economists like to tinker with mathematical models doesn&#8217;t free them of the reality that they are studying phenomenons that are almost exclusively all the result of human behavior &#8211; which remains a great mystery to science as we all know.</p>
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