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	<title>Comments on: False Necessity</title>
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	<link>http://www.kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2003/06/24/false-necessity/</link>
	<description>Sociology and other distractions</description>
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		<title>By: Ravi Nanavati</title>
		<link>http://www.kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2003/06/24/false-necessity/comment-page-1/#comment-2031</link>
		<dc:creator>Ravi Nanavati</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kieranhealy.org/wordpress/?p=459#comment-2031</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re missing Kinsley&#039;s point. In general, what you are saying is true... race is neither a necessary nor a sufficient condition for admission, but...

because admission is a binary decision, *when considering a particular case*, either race tipped the scale or it didn&#039;t (when you change the race the admission decision changes or it doesn&#039;t). That is why O&#039;Connor is being incoherent when saying race can play a role but it cannot be a determinative factor - for a binary decision any factor that plays a role will be determinative some of the time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>You&#8217;re missing Kinsley&#8217;s point. In general, what you are saying is true&#8230; race is neither a necessary nor a sufficient condition for admission, but&#8230;</p>

	<p>because admission is a binary decision, <strong>when considering a particular case</strong>, either race tipped the scale or it didn&#8217;t (when you change the race the admission decision changes or it doesn&#8217;t). That is why O&#8217;Connor is being incoherent when saying race can play a role but it cannot be a determinative factor &#8211; for a binary decision any factor that plays a role will be determinative some of the time.</p>
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		<title>By: jam</title>
		<link>http://www.kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2003/06/24/false-necessity/comment-page-1/#comment-2032</link>
		<dc:creator>jam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kieranhealy.org/wordpress/?p=459#comment-2032</guid>
		<description>This is hard to wrap one&#039;s mind around, because assumptions about how the process works have been incorporated into our thinking.  

Kinsley is, I think, assuming that all the applicants are somehow linearly ranked, a cutoff point is determined (based on desired class size, perhaps), those above the cutoff point are admitted and those below rejected.  He then considers the last few applicants admitted and compares them against the applicants immediately below the cutoff point.  If  different consideration of race would have caused any or all these people to switch places, then their admission was determined by their race.  If not, not.

Healy (and Drezner and probably O&#039;Connor) visualize admissions officers reading an application and marking it &quot;A&quot;, &quot;D&quot; or &quot;?&quot;, without much reference to other applications.  Their thought processes are not easily reducible to rule nor amenable to counterfactuals.  A different officer reading the same application may mark it differently (in a fair number of cases does, which is why admissions processes need some way of resolving such disagreements).  The same officer reading particularly a marginal application at a different time, in a different mood, in a different state of digestion, might have marked it differently.  The question, Would the decision change if the race changed? is unanswerable.  

It may be true that &quot;for a binary decision any factor that plays a role will be determinative some of the time&quot; but it is not necessarily true that we can recover which factor was determinative in any particular case.

And it&#039;s probably worth emphasising that the actual admission mechanism in Gratz looked more like the model I&#039;m speculating is in  Kinsley&#039;s head and the actual admission mechanism in Grutter looked more like the model I&#039;m speculating is in Healy&#039;s.  Which may be why the decisions came down the way they did.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>This is hard to wrap one&#8217;s mind around, because assumptions about how the process works have been incorporated into our thinking.</p>

	<p>Kinsley is, I think, assuming that all the applicants are somehow linearly ranked, a cutoff point is determined (based on desired class size, perhaps), those above the cutoff point are admitted and those below rejected.  He then considers the last few applicants admitted and compares them against the applicants immediately below the cutoff point.  If  different consideration of race would have caused any or all these people to switch places, then their admission was determined by their race.  If not, not.</p>

	<p>Healy (and Drezner and probably O&#8217;Connor) visualize admissions officers reading an application and marking it &#8220;A&#8221;, &#8220;D&#8221; or &#8220;?&#8221;, without much reference to other applications.  Their thought processes are not easily reducible to rule nor amenable to counterfactuals.  A different officer reading the same application may mark it differently (in a fair number of cases does, which is why admissions processes need some way of resolving such disagreements).  The same officer reading particularly a marginal application at a different time, in a different mood, in a different state of digestion, might have marked it differently.  The question, Would the decision change if the race changed? is unanswerable.</p>

	<p>It may be true that &#8220;for a binary decision any factor that plays a role will be determinative some of the time&#8221; but it is not necessarily true that we can recover which factor was determinative in any particular case.</p>

	<p>And it&#8217;s probably worth emphasising that the actual admission mechanism in Gratz looked more like the model I&#8217;m speculating is in  Kinsley&#8217;s head and the actual admission mechanism in Grutter looked more like the model I&#8217;m speculating is in Healy&#8217;s.  Which may be why the decisions came down the way they did.</p>
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		<title>By: Ikram Saeed</title>
		<link>http://www.kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2003/06/24/false-necessity/comment-page-1/#comment-2033</link>
		<dc:creator>Ikram Saeed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kieranhealy.org/wordpress/?p=459#comment-2033</guid>
		<description>Just to note that from the persepective of an applicant, _every_ factor is determinitive.  Either you get in or you don&#039;t, and your residence in Long Island or Alabama either got you in or it didn&#039;t.

So Kinsley&#039;s way of thinking (from the presepective of the applicant) really doesn&#039;t add a lot fo value.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Just to note that from the persepective of an applicant, <em>every</em> factor is determinitive.  Either you get in or you don&#8217;t, and your residence in Long Island or Alabama either got you in or it didn&#8217;t.</p>

	<p>So Kinsley&#8217;s way of thinking (from the presepective of the applicant) really doesn&#8217;t add a lot fo value.</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2003/06/24/false-necessity/comment-page-1/#comment-2034</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kieranhealy.org/wordpress/?p=459#comment-2034</guid>
		<description>I think people are misreading Kinsley. See my extended comments here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I think people are misreading Kinsley. See my extended comments here.</p>
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		<title>By: stolenelectioncoin.com</title>
		<link>http://www.kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2003/06/24/false-necessity/comment-page-1/#comment-2035</link>
		<dc:creator>stolenelectioncoin.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kieranhealy.org/wordpress/?p=459#comment-2035</guid>
		<description>Do you want to see the congress enact a liberal agenda this year?

You can demand that they do,  at 

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All profits go to charity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Do you want to see the congress enact a liberal agenda this year?</p>

	<p>You can demand that they do,  at</p>

	<p><a href="http://www.thePetitionSite.com/takeaction/365235275" rel="nofollow">http://www.thePetitionSite.com/takeaction/365235275</a></p>


	<p>The George W Bush 2000 Stolen Election Commemorative Coin</p>

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	<p>All profits go to charity.</p>
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		<title>By: Norman Pfyster</title>
		<link>http://www.kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2003/06/24/false-necessity/comment-page-1/#comment-2036</link>
		<dc:creator>Norman Pfyster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kieranhealy.org/wordpress/?p=459#comment-2036</guid>
		<description>I think you and Drezner misunderstood the type of causality Kinsley meant. Obviously he knows that race is neither a necessary nor sufficient condition. He meant that on the margins it is a but-for condition. His (just) criticism of O&#039;Connor&#039;s ruling is that she didn&#039;t seem to realize that even in a holistic, individualized process, each factor *can be* a but-for condition, and thus determinative of the outcome. Since the other Michigan case in which O&#039;Connor joined held that race cannot be a determinative factor in the outcome, there is a clear fudge in the reasoning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I think you and Drezner misunderstood the type of causality Kinsley meant. Obviously he knows that race is neither a necessary nor sufficient condition. He meant that on the margins it is a but-for condition. His (just) criticism of O&#8217;Connor&#8217;s ruling is that she didn&#8217;t seem to realize that even in a holistic, individualized process, each factor <strong>can be</strong> a but-for condition, and thus determinative of the outcome. Since the other Michigan case in which O&#8217;Connor joined held that race cannot be a determinative factor in the outcome, there is a clear fudge in the reasoning.</p>
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		<title>By: dsquared</title>
		<link>http://www.kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2003/06/24/false-necessity/comment-page-1/#comment-2037</link>
		<dc:creator>dsquared</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kieranhealy.org/wordpress/?p=459#comment-2037</guid>
		<description>I think that Kinsley has a point (based on Kieran&#039;s summary; I don&#039;t read Kinsley).  And I think JL Mackie agrees with me in &quot;Cement of the Universe&quot;.

Being black is an insufficient but necessary condition for &quot;being a person who would not have got in based on SAT scores but does so after extra points are awarded to black people&quot;, and being a PWWNHGIBOSSBDSAEPAATBP is an unnecessary but sufficient condition for being awarded a place.  So it is permissible under the ordinary language meaning of &quot;cause&quot; to say that being black caused some PWWNHGIBOSSBDSAEPAATBP to get into university.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I think that Kinsley has a point (based on Kieran&#8217;s summary; I don&#8217;t read Kinsley).  And I think <span class="caps">JL </span>Mackie agrees with me in &#8220;Cement of the Universe&#8221;.</p>

	<p>Being black is an insufficient but necessary condition for &#8220;being a person who would not have got in based on <span class="caps">SAT</span> scores but does so after extra points are awarded to black people&#8221;, and being a <span class="caps">PWWNHGIBOSSBDSAEPAATBP</span> is an unnecessary but sufficient condition for being awarded a place.  So it is permissible under the ordinary language meaning of &#8220;cause&#8221; to say that being black caused some <span class="caps">PWWNHGIBOSSBDSAEPAATBP</span> to get into university.</p>
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